Raymer vs Action Dan WSOP 2004 Final table hand

[Lucy Alexis Liu]

Was just watching the final table of WSOP 2004 again, and in the hand where Action Dan moves allin with a 62o, against raymer who has A2s (Arieh had K9 and already folded to Dans raise). I got the distinctive feeling that Raymer knew Action Dan was making a move. Action Dan even looked very suspicious, almost afraid to look around. Looked like he was trying to avoid eyecontact, but knew he HAD to look at Raymer not to seem weak. Oh well, just seemed odd. Seemd kind of like Raymer's generousity got the best of him =)

Am I totally wrong?

[detroitplayer]

I thought the cliche was if someone was bluffing they would look at the person to see if they were going to pick up chips to call... and if someone wasn't bluffing, they would not look at the person as to be as least confrontational as possible, hoping to induce a call.

[asofel]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought the cliche was if someone was bluffing they would look at the person to see if they were going to pick up chips to call... and if someone wasn't bluffing, they would not look at the person as to be as least confrontational as possible, hoping to induce a call.

[/ QUOTE ]

depends on if they're acting or not. That's where the feel comes in. Once you know if they're acting or not, then you just go with the tell and the general strong/weak weak/strong idea.

[Greg (FossilMan)]

To be honest, I do not even recall the hand (other than from seeing it on TV). At the time it happened, it simply wasn't a remarkable hand. They presumably picked it to show because it was one of the few hands in which Dan was bluffing. He bluffs so rarely that he gets away with it the large majority of the time. And he also picks really good spots to do it anyway. As for what you saw in my face or his eyes, you can't believe what you see. It is quite possible that the close-up shots you saw of each of us was edited in from another hand. I know they are perfectly willing to do that if they think it makes for a better show. However, since I do not remember this hand, I certainly cannot say that the footage in this show is from another hand. That is, I cannot deny or confirm the accuracy and timeliness of what you saw.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[niwotyalpi]

Given Dan's reputation, I would think the last thing in people's minds when he makes a huge reraise is "this guy is making a move on me."

[A_C_Slater]

I don't think he raised all in on that hand. I believe he just made a standard reraise because he felt that Arieh and Raymer were playing marginal hands in that instance. And if they're willing to edit in facial reactions from other hands to heighten the suspense, then couldn't they just take it a step furthur and "give" Harrington a 62o there, when instead he really has somethin like AQ?

[gergery]

Action Dan made a good move there.

Arieh opened for a bet, Raymer called it, Dan then put in a good size raise. Arieh would not be able to call without a strong hand because he not only had to fear Dan’s hand but also Raymer’s. Raymer was also unlikely to have a very strong hand because he only flat called Arieh (who was playing loose/aggressive) instead of raising. And with more left to act who’d want to join the fun, Raymer would be much more likely to raise a strong hand. Harrington also knew both of them were loose and mixing it up.

So Harrington picked a good spot: Raymer gave him protection vs. Arieh, and gave away more information about his hand by calling a bet, rather than being first in with a raise himself.

Body language and eye contact likely had little to do with it.

--Greg

[Lucy Alexis Liu]

Hmm yeah, they have been known to edit hands to make "better" TV, thats true. Oh Well, I'm off to bed =)

[niwotyalpi]

originally posted by A C Slater

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think he raised all in on that hand. I believe he just made a standard reraise because he felt that Arieh and Raymer were playing marginal hands in that instance. And if they're willing to edit in facial reactions from other hands to heighten the suspense, then couldn't they just take it a step furthur and "give" Harrington a 62o there, when instead he really has somethin like AQ?

[/ QUOTE ]

You bring up a good point AC. With all the crap I've read and heard about ESPN faking hands, it wouldnt surprise me if Harrington didnt even have 6 2 o here.

[Shibby]

[ QUOTE ]
Action Dan made a good move there.

Arieh opened for a bet, Raymer called it, Dan then put in a good size raise. Arieh would not be able to call without a strong hand because he not only had to fear Dan’s hand but also Raymer’s. Raymer was also unlikely to have a very strong hand because he only flat called Arieh (who was playing loose/aggressive) instead of raising. And with more left to act who’d want to join the fun, Raymer would be much more likely to raise a strong hand. Harrington also knew both of them were loose and mixing it up.

So Harrington picked a good spot: Raymer gave him protection vs. Arieh, and gave away more information about his hand by calling a bet, rather than being first in with a raise himself.

Body language and eye contact likely had little to do with it.

--Greg

[/ QUOTE ]
He talks about this play in HOH, not this hand particularly, just the squeeze play in general.