Push?

[lapoker17]

We often talk about hands that are similar to this one, and the play is pretty easy in heads up situations. This time, however, the pot was multiway and I didn't quite know what to do.

10/20 - Table is playing really small - No one with more than 2k.

3 limpers to me in CO w J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I ($1400) limp, blinds come along.

Flop is Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB ($1300) is a total rock and leads for $120.

Folded to the player on my right ($1200), who is kind of wild, but not too horrible, just kind of horrible. He makes it $400 and I?...

[imperious]

The wild one next to you could easily have a bigger draw, I'm sure you know this. Your straight draw is not that good, your flush draw is not that good and neither is your pair.

Your question was "push?"

Hell no, you're too good a player to be getting involved in this hand. Wait for a better spot.
It's only a maybe if you had A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K/J/T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[lapoker17]

If I had AK, AJ, or AT [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], then I'm pretty sure I'm pushing - Not sure why you think those are just "maybes".

[imperious]

It's only a small maybe because I don't have enough info on the game/players/reads but I agree it's a much easier push.
I think most players would.

I'm interested as to why you are considering pushing with this hand? Seems like an easy fold.

[thatpfunk]

How did rock respond to the raise? Could you pick up anything from him?

If you think that pushing will fold the rock more often than not, I don't think its a bad consideration.
Reads would help a lot, e.g. what range of hands would horrible player raise rock with, does horrible player know that original bettor is a rock, would he raise with a draw, etc?

I think you could wait for a better spot, but pushing has some benefits (metagame as well).

[lapoker17]

[ QUOTE ]
How did rock respond to the raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Great question, and this is kind of what I was getting at. So, for Rock to bet out here, he assuredly has a Queen AQ, KQ, QJ most likely, or he has something bigger. For the guy next to me to raise, he could have the same range of Queens (believe it or not), he could have a set, 2 pair, or a draw - and there are tons of possible draws - plenty of which I still look OK against. So, one of the deciding factors to me was what it looked like the rock was going to do.

[Ionphore]

If wild man semi bluffs like this habitually I would be more inclined to push as its going to be very hard for rock to call with two pair, which is the kind of hand he might have led so strong with. If wild man is semi bluffing on a draw you have to be in decent shape as he can't be paired up yet and have a draw. Also wild man seems more likely to semi bluff with just you left to act, he would probably be less likely to as one of the early limpers. Any reads on SB when wild man raises? I would probably push, if its a mistake its a small one, and if theres an edge its small too. But its a good play for table image...

[kirisim]

The problem is, you are really only comfortable with a heart coming on the turn. Some of your other outs like a J or T could make you a second-best hand that you'll pay with off.

That being said, would it be terrible to flat call and see what develops? If the rock goes all in on the flop, it is safe to say you probably have only 8 outs. And then it's a matter of pot odds - it would depend on whether the player in the middle called.

[kirisim]

The more I think about it, you should throw this hand away. If you push and are called, you are either even money (against 1 pair like AQ) or a big dog (against 2 pair or a set.) You don't have much folding equity against two players on this board.

Although you can narrow down their hands somewhat, many hands they could hold would put you in really bad shape.

[Ulysses]

I would fold. Given the way you described things, this is one of those times when being in the nightmare scenario of facing a set and a higher flush draw is something you have to seriously consider. Also, with the table playing so short, your fold equity goes down significantly.