Party Poker Millions satellites are a ripoff for many...

[TheHawk]

OK, I will start with a disclaimer, my site of preference is usually Pokerstars. I have played a lot at Planet (another good site), and lesser amounts at most of the other major sites. When I have played at Party, aside from finding their software highly irritating in a number of ways, I generally find that they are not a player friendly site (for example, the 10% adm fee they deduct from the bad beat jackpots, which basically means they figured out a creative way to increase their rake), and my most recent experience reinforced my belief. I attended a WPT event in
January(compliments of a pokerstars satellite), and enjoyed the experience thoroughly and hope to attend other events. Since I am only marginally interested in the EPT, and WSOP satellites at pokerstars dont start for a while, I cruised other sites for satellites to WPT events. The two I
focused on were Paradise (Shooting Starts) and Party Poker Millions event. Over the weekend I played in 6 or 7 of the one table 32 dollar (29+3) satellites at Party poker. I was fortunate enough to win 2 of them, so I had a couple of shots in their semi-final events. The prize money for the one table satellites is distributed as follows: 290 total,
32 for 2nd and 3rd (in the form of a freeroll in another one table satellite), with the balance of 226 going to 1st, which is an entry into their semi-final tournament, which costs 210+16. Stupidly, especially when risking my hard earned bankroll at Party, I did not read the fine print before entering these satellites. The semi-finals reward one seat for each 60 entrants, with the seats valued at 12,600 (which is 60*210). Obviously I assumed I would receive a full 210 in equity for my first place finish, and would have a 2 separate 1 in 60 chances to qualify for
the cruise. Now I read the fine print. For my first place finish, I get 1000 chips to start the tournament. However, people who play at their site a lot will be given extra starting chips, up to 3000 total. If the average stack to start the tournament is 2000, my odds of winning arent 1
in 60, they are more like 1 in 120 (ignoring differences in skill for the moment). And the prize that I paid for and won isnt really worth 210, it is worth half that amount. The remainder has been taken from me and given to players who log more hours than me at Party poker. When Pokerstars
rewards their loyal players with frequent player points (FPP's), the reward is usually the opportunity to play in some sort of freeroll, fully funded by Pokerstars. That is the way it should be, and represents a very fair way to reward players for their play. When Party rewards their
players for frequent play, they do it not with their own money, but by stealing from players like me, who log most their hours at other sites. In order to get the fully equity that I thought I won in the satellite, I am forced to log many additional hours at the tables at Party. That is not right, and in my estimation highly unethical on their part. I emailed my concerns to Party and got a series of ridiculous form letter responses. So, I will take my 1000 chips and play in two of their semi-final events. I have already withdrawn all other funds from Party. After the semi's are done, I will uninstall my Party software and will never, ever, play there again. From now on I plan to stick to playing at sites where I dont feel required to reading the fine print before entering
a satellite.

[Go Blue]

I completely agree with you. I tend to bounce around different sites when I play. I hate everything about Party, except for their game selection and constant availability (due to a large amount of players) of all types of games at all limits. Unofrtunately, this is the biggest determining factor for me when chooising where to play. Other than that, Party is an awful site. They take advantage of the fact that they have so many players. And speaking of player rewards, I haven't really looked TOO much into this, but their new player's club thing is much worse than that of Stars (I THINK), in terms of how many raked hands you have to play to get a certain item. Their customer service is awful, and even though they have a phone number, you can't ever talk to anyone who actually speaks decent English. Their email responces are ridiculous, as most are generic responces and you only get a personal responce usually if you send them another email. If only stars consistantly had full 1/2 and 2/4 limit Omaha8 I'd never stop playing there.

[Dominic]

that's why i play at Ultimate Bet...sure, it may take a little longer to gt a SNG going, but their software is the best out there, they treat their customers with respect, and I've always been fully satisfied by their customer service department.

[zaxx19]

Bump UB is good....Once they refunded me money I really didnt even lose...remember a few months back when the site went down. I lost like 17 bucks on some table they refunded me my entire buy in without me even asking.

[iturner187]

Why not just log some hands, enough to give you your full quota of chips and then never play the site again... It seems a bit silly to leave yourself at a disadvantage when you know you can be on an equal footing with a few hours playing at the site.

[freemont]

Personally I was delighted to find I get 3k in chips, even happier when I turned those 3k into a spot on the PPM.

[TheHawk]

No doubt. Congratulations, part of the equity I thought I won has been transferred to you compliments of Party poker.

[freemont]

thanks, unfortunately I won mine in November so missed out on your equity [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Anyhow I would really suggest, as much as you are mad at party, playing the raked hands to get the extra chips, they are a huge advantage. (not to mention with the softness of party's games you'll probably make some money in the process)

Also I'd estimate the average starting stack is somewhere around 1800 as more people than you would think didn't have all 3k.

Good luck and hopefully I'll see you on the cruise!

[KingMedicine]

[ QUOTE ]
thanks, unfortunately I won mine in November so missed out on your equity [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Anyhow I would really suggest, as much as you are mad at party, playing the raked hands to get the extra chips, they are a huge advantage. (not to mention with the softness of party's games you'll probably make some money in the process)

Also I'd estimate the average starting stack is somewhere around 1800 as more people than you would think didn't have all 3k.

Good luck and hopefully I'll see you on the cruise!

[/ QUOTE ]


actually, in the past, almost every semi has an avg starting chips around 2500.

but yea, depending on how much time the OP has between now and the Semis, its definitely in his interest to rack up the extra starting chips to get to 3000 in each of his two days. plus, im pretty sure he'll win money if he just 4 tables 1/2 or 2/4. no sense in him leaving himself at a disadvantage just because party weaseled him//other players.

[PokerPaul]

Hawk,

your points are well taken and I had the same feeling back when i started playing at PP.

I had played tons of those sattelites during their first year..but no ring games, and was surprised to see i was sucking wind once the tourney i qualified for with my $$ meant squat. I too did not read the small print, nor was i aware i should have to read page long documents for a simple STT....Sit and Go right?

I also had huge trouble with their customer service in those early years. The live chat rarely worked, and when it did, i rarely got anyone on other end. And the one time there was a glitch in the software (you could actually skip your BB, and come in on the SB if you hit a proper sit in/out sequence, and have someone else post BB's twice in a row to make up for it) they didnt belive me and belittled me for it, even though whole table saw it, and all service manager had to do was check HH, but he didnt even do that because he basically said im full of it.

Needless to say, it was shortly thereafter i too deleted the PP software from my computer to never return....for years literally.

3 full years later, and i decided to give them another try, and was flabbergasted to see all the traffic increase over those years.....tons of game selection, and some of the easiest games i have ever experienced.

Now i am playing there alot, just becasue of that..ample game selection and good clientele.

However, i do also feel that Party is very ...hmm dont know the right word here...unethical.. no...scrupulous in the way they treat their customers.

I made a lengthy post about this a while back discussing the issue, basically they are operating in an almost monopoly like environment where they can do and charge almost anything they want, and the players will keep coming regardless cuz its the only show in town that offers this much games and players.

But there will come a point where competition will become more balanced, and they will be forced to make some changes and try to gain some customer loyalty.

Remember Paradise Poker when they were the only show in town??? Now they are distant behind in terms of market share, and im not sad about that at all.

Some Party pissoffs:
- Take huge cut of already huge JP's
- Rake is still very hi
- The whole PPM sattelite issue
- PPM store basically just cheap items for players to become billboards for them
- Service marginal
- They do not return ANYTHING to loyal players (although i think this is changing now with their FPP program)
- Xtra tourney chips for PPM nice for players but again, doesnt cost them anything..ie. no return to loyal players.


On the flip side i must say they do still have very good:
- game selection
- opposition
- cashout procedures and speed


But when the time comes and another site can offer those 3 good points, i would not feel any loyalty to stick with party and would definitely move on.