Coach told me this was an "unusual" play.

Hoi Polloi · #1 01-24-2005, 05:58 PM

After the hand, Coach spent a few minutes advising me that check-raising with a gutshot is a very "unusual" play. I took his advice like a man and refrained from telling him I had 10 pretty solid outs. It was fun.

I think I've got the odds to make the play and that it makes sense given his possible holdings. Let me know what you think.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, CO (Coach) raises, 3 folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, Coach bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, Coach bets, Hero raises, MP2 calls, Coach calls.

River: (11.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP2 folds, Coach calls.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB

djoyce003 · #2 01-24-2005, 06:15 PM

gutshot? You are open ended....what's this gutshot business, although obviously you should be raising because you likely have the best hand....otherwise it is a bad raise unless you judge you have some fold equity. I think you probably have the best hand tho.

Entity · #3 01-24-2005, 06:19 PM

Your flop call is a bit...unusual.

Rob

afk · #4 01-24-2005, 06:21 PM

What is your reasoning behind calling the flop?

vegasvegas · #5 01-24-2005, 06:26 PM

I'd muck this preflop. If I stay in for some reason, I'd muck it post flop. Turn check raise is debatable.

cnfuzzd · #6 01-24-2005, 06:32 PM

I dont think you are properly discounting your outs. And, if i wanted to continue in the hand, i would probably raise the flop.

peace

john nickle

colgin · #7 01-24-2005, 06:35 PM

I would fold the flop here. After a couple of limpers villain could have raised with pocket pairs as low as 77, which you would still be behind. Not to mention MP2 who also could have limped with a higher pocketpairs or a handlike J9s, among others. If you are behind you have very few outs and if you happen to be ahead there could be as many as six overcards that beat you, not to mention the flush draw.

On the turn you now just have odds to check and call. I don't see the check-raise here as you may well get three-bet when you are behind (which ruins the effective odds for your draw) and overcards clearly have odds to call (particularly one with an Ace in it), plus there is now a secondflush draw possible, so I don't think you have any fold equity here.

Also think about the following:

[ QUOTE ]
I took his advice like a man and refrained from telling him I had 10 pretty solid outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think you have 10 solid outs presumably it is because you think you are against an overpair. If so, then you should definitely not be reraising here. And if you think you are facing overcards then you can't like your two 5 outs very much can you.

uw_madtown · #8 01-24-2005, 06:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd muck this preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Limping with this from UTG in the Party 2/4 is perfectly fine, unless the table has particularly shown tight or aggro tendencies.

Nick B. · #9 01-24-2005, 06:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you think you have 10 solid outs presumably it is because you think you are against an overpair. If so, then you should definitely not be reraising here. And if you think you are facing overcards then you can't like your two 5 outs very much can you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the play was fine. If he is up against an overpair then he has 10 outs (unless he is against AA or a set, the he has 8 outs). If he is up against overcards, he has around 37 outs. His play might also get 66-88 to fold.

Nate tha' Great · #10 01-24-2005, 06:48 PM

The advice here is pretty off. I'm finding some way to continue with this hand on the flop, either through calling or (probably) raising.