Hey, Ed Miller, I think you left something important out of SSH.

steamboatin · #1 01-23-2005, 01:15 AM

After we crush those amatuer opponents with expert play, How do we know when it is time to leave so we don't piss away our winnings and leave stuck?

If its in there and I missed it, I appologize in advance.

I was playing some darn good poker this afternoon and was up 25 BB in about 4 hours. I continued to play and left stuck 15 BB.

My question is, why is it so damn hard to leave when you are up and what should I do about it?

Al_Capone_Junior · #2 01-23-2005, 01:50 AM

Steamboatin

For as many posts as you have (and btw, I feel you are a "worthy" 2+2er) I wonder why you would ask this question.

The answer(s) to this question are very clearly addressed in Gambling theory and other topics.

The subject of money management really is silly if you think of it in the terms it is discussed in Mason's book.

If you were playing your best, the game remained good, you weren't tired, etc etc, you should have stayed, regardless of the results.

al

mosquito · #3 01-23-2005, 02:15 AM

Was that rhetorical? Looking for symapthy? Either you
were in a good game, felt good, and were
playing well; OR you should have left the game at some
point.

I hate blowing off wins too, BTW.

mosquito · #4 01-23-2005, 02:21 AM

On another tack, you might set a 'blowback' limit
to adhere to until you develop the strength and self
awarness to evaluate your situation better. Also
known as maturity.

Of course, it is possible that you should have been
in the game, and just got unlucky.

uw_madtown · #5 01-23-2005, 04:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
After we crush those amatuer opponents with expert play, How do we know when it is time to leave

[/ QUOTE ]

When the game goes bad, or you feel you're playing less than your best.

[ QUOTE ]
How do we know when it is time to leave so we don't piss away our winnings and leave stuck?

My question is, why is it so damn hard to leave when you are up and what should I do about it?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's one big game, dude. You've been here way longer than me. You know this already.

As long as you're playing your best in a game where that gives you an edge, you shouldn't leave (unless there's another game that gives you a greater earning potential). Leaving to book a win, or thinking you should have left earlier because you ended up stuck, is fishy-thought.

The next 100 hands you play are the next 100 hands you play, whether you play them after winning 30 BBs or you stop and play them next week.

steamboatin · #6 01-23-2005, 09:22 AM

I think this is a hole in my game. After you learn to win the chips, you need to know how to keep them. The game was good. I don't think I play as well after about four hours and I think I gamble to much after the flop when I have a big stack in front of me.

Everybody says, Don't leave if the game is still good but you can't play forever and there has to be a stopping point somewhere. There is always big discussion regarding when to leave when you are stuck/tilting but we never seem to have any discussion regarding leaving when you are ahead.

I have never read the gambling theory forum or any books on gambling theory. If this is covered in a book, let me know which one and I'll buy it today.

This whole concept of "You have a thousand posts, you should know better", is a crap idea also. A thousand posts means I am better than I was but, it dosen't make me a poker god by any means.

I think it is similar to the stock market. In the stock market they say."The trees never grow all the way to the sky!" meaning there is always a top to the value of a stock and you should not expect a stock that is rising in value to continue to rise indefinetely. An untold number of people bought .com stocks during the technology bubble, rode them all the way up and all the way back down. We think those people made a mistake not taking their profits. I think I made a mistake, riding my chip stack all the way down. How is it that any different?

I would submit for your consideration that a chip stack that is growing should not be expected to continue to grow. If the next hour of poker that you play is the next hour of poker regardless of when you play it, then it shouldn't matter when you get up. So, don't leave a good game just because you are stuck is just as bad advice as don't leave just to book a win.

I would really like to have a disscussion about the proper time to leave the game?

PS. I have been guilty of making a crybaby post after a losing session in the past and in a day or two, I might realize this is another. I this is something worth a discussion and I would like everybody's input.

BradleyT · #7 01-23-2005, 09:48 AM

There is no proper time if the game is good. Poker is just one huge continious session that lasts a lifetime.

Al_Capone_Junior · #8 01-23-2005, 12:54 PM

Steam...

Please read Gambling theory and other topics by mason and then re-visit this thread and post your new thoughts on the matter. I think you'll get some great insights to this whole subject.

Interesting subject, btw, but you simply must read this book! It's kinda like my assessment that you're simply NOT an advanced player unless you have read and understand theory of poker, but perhaps I should add in gambling theory and other topics as well.

al

TripleH68 · #9 01-23-2005, 01:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I play as well after about four hours and I think I gamble to much after the flop when I have a big stack in front of me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like you are in touch with your problem. Maybe you start off thinking about playing solid poker. Where does your mind go later in the session? To money? To session totals? To impressing someone with how much you can win in one session? To how you wish you would have asked out Leslie during your freshman year in college? Etc. Etc. Just respectful guesses. You know the real answer. Stick to solid poker.

[ QUOTE ]
I think it is similar to the stock market. In the stock market they say."The trees never grow all the way to the sky!" meaning there is always a top to the value of a stock and you should not expect a stock that is rising in value to continue to rise indefinetely. An untold number of people bought .com stocks during the technology bubble, rode them all the way up and all the way back down. We think those people made a mistake not taking their profits. I think I made a mistake, riding my chip stack all the way down. How is it that any different?

[/ QUOTE ]

I know what you are saying about the stock market, but I think it is COMPLETELY different from poker.

BTW, where are you in IN? Since you have posted hands from all over. I may be visiting my buddy in Indy for a weekend. Which place down there has the best room? I will IM you if/when I am heading to town...

Bluffoon · #10 01-23-2005, 01:05 PM

I buy stocks of companies that generate cash. As long as they keep generating cash I will continue to hold them. Your game is no different. If your game is generating cash (+EV) you should continue playing, regardless of the short-term fluctuations.

If you have noticed that your play deteriorates after several hours then take a break. I like to play for a few hours, go to the gym, and come back and play for a few hours more.