Odds to call w/72o

[Lloyd]

This is a very general question but one that certainly has some strategic implications. What odds would you need to call with trash? How would those required odds change depending upon your position, whether or not its a raised pot, number of players in the hand, etc.?

Instinctively, most people would throw away 72o (or another marginal or trash hand) without thinking about it. But I have to believe at some point it's worth calling in the event you flop 2 pair, trips, quads, etc.

[webmonarch]

The only time I play this hand is when I plan to take down the pot with sheer bluffing will and then show the others at the table what I've done! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[jimymat]

Around 7-1 odds for the trips maybe

[SossMan]

Wow, I would be the best player ever if I flopped trips once every 8 hands.

(That's the odds to flop a set if you hold a pocket pair)

[Mike Gallo]

When I call with trash its to win without a showdown

[Rusty266]

Well, you would be about a 7-1 dog against any over pair and about a 2-1 dog against A-K off. Obviously you need decent odds even if contemplating a call from the small blind. Of course that means more players in the pot, which doesn't help your chances. Assuming you are not up against an over pair, against only 3 other players holding cards such as A-8, J-T, & Q-9, all off suit, your about a 7-1 dog. About the only way to get those odds would be calling a minimum raise from the big blind or completing the small blind, both with 3 other players in the pot. Then you would be getting the necessary odds I suppose, but each of the three hands mentioned above would be twice as likely to win the hand over 7-2.

[jennicide]

I thank 72o sometimes. Once I felt very ill while playing a tournament and decided to self-destruct. I had about 15k in chips with 2 all-in's in front of me, one 12k stack and another 30k stack. I called with 72o and was against Aces and Kings. I rivered the nuts and tripled up. My 'sick' feeling went away quickly and I won that tournament. (Don't try this at home)

[schwah]

if you're talking about a situation where the following is true:

-the pot is heads up
-at least one player (you or the other guy) will be all in if you call
-you are closing the action by calling

then i think you MUST call if you are getting 3.5:1 or better. you may call with slightly worse odds if you think that the raiser is in a situation where he may be raising with pretty much any holding. any worse than 2.5:1 and you should probably fold.

[patrick dicaprio]

one time i usually call here is if i am minraised and am in the BB and the SB folds assuming it is headsup. any two is usually good enough here if my stack is deep enough where i dont have to raise everytime i play a hand.

Pat

Pat

[Lloyd]

Let me throw out two scenarios for thoughts:

1) You have a trash hand (could be 72o or T4o or whatever) on the button in a full (let's say 10-handed) game. Everyone limps to you. Do you limp getting 8 1/2 to 1 odds? If not with complete trash, what type of hand would it take for you to limp?

2) It's folded to the button who mini-raises. The SB folds and you have trash. Do you call getting 2 1/2 to 1 odds (we're presuming in both cases that calling has negligible impact on your stack)? What kind of a flop do you need to lead out? Certainly in this heads up situation you wouldn't necessarily need a monster to win and can probably bluff on the right type of flop. (I'm assuming no read that the button would mini-raise with a monster.) And again, if you're not calling with complete trash, what type of hand would you call with.