Art of stack size

[ginko]

I'm curious what size stacks most of you guys like playing with. I've been a "bigstack" guy for a long time, buying in for the max 100xBB's(PS), because I see all the pros doing it and imitate them.

How many BB's do you buy for? Is there a specific reason? How does your style lend itself to your stack size?

Today I played very short stacked on 5 $100 tables(PS, $20 each). I kinda liked it. I wasn't worried about sets, or being outdrawn for a huge $$ decision on the river. If I made a hand I put it all-in and I got paid off pretty well.

I'll add more of my reasoning after a few responses, thoughts?

[tbach24]

Buy-in the minimum, double up and leave. For some reason people, including myself, don't see a 5xBB raise from a small stack the same way they see it from a large stack...

[ginko]

So you do this often? It's kind of exciting I'm learning this new strategy [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] (don't laugh im fish ok).

[edge]

With smaller stacks, there's less skill involved. You can't really make moves, you just shove your stack in on top pair or better.

I like 100 BB buy-in, and I find that if I get to 200 (and an opponent is also at 200), I usually have a big advantage, as most players can't play a 200 BB stack that well. I would certainly like to practice with bigger stacks more often, but it takes a while to get to 200.

[JKratzer]

I always buy-in for the maximum. If I'm gonna sit down at a table I believe I am better than most (if not all) of the players. Therefore, when I get in a hand I want to have as much money as possible because I am going to win. If the max buy-in or the players make me uneasy and I don't feel comfortable playing then I find a different table.

If you plan on winning the more you have the more you can win when you go all-in. Be confident in your game and you won't regret being shortstacked when you get all-in with the nuts against a fish.

JKratzer

[ginko]

Well I wanted to explain my reasoning a little: Often I'm pushed off the best hand because they are overplaying theirs. There are tons of other big stack players in the game and they are always hitting sets or outdrawing me for a huge pot. If I manage to get a set, I hardly get paid because they don't have a strong enough hand to compete.

I mean the odds of you flopping a monster for a full buyin double up is pretty rare(I know it happens but you need at least a set vs top2). More often you flop top pair goodkicker/top kicker.

[ginko]

As for moves I think there is alot of semi bluffing opportunity with a shortstack wouldn't you agree? Sure you can semi-bluff with a big stack but it looks a little weird when someone push's +$100 for a $10 pot(and I've seen alot of people do this and I instantly know they are on a draw, who does this with a set?).

Some moves I did earlier... limp with AK, if it gets raised then I go allin hoping to steal. If I get called I usually have the best hand(fish+sheriff calling with any PP/AQ-K10)

Ditto for medium pocket pairs. Play sets for Very cheap.. play very agressive when I have a hand.

[edtost]

the 75-150bb stack size range is very diffucult to play, for me at least. i'd much rather be <50 or >200.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
the 75-150bb stack size range is very diffucult to play, for me at least. i'd much rather be <50 or >200.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. Under 50 the game is "easy," because in a raised pot it's normally correct to go to the felt w/ TPTK.

Over 200 the game is not "easy," parsay, but one pair hands are not en vogue.

In the middle there's lots of gray surrounded by black and white.


Also, the most important concept, (I forget who wrote this post, it was mid stakes about stack size... Limon maybe? Or Ray Zee) buying enough to cover weaker opposition but not covering strong opponents. EX: You're at a 9 handed table with Doyle Brunson (1million) Ray Zee (500 thousand) You (X) and THE WORST SIX PLAYERS EVER (each with 2000) How much should you sit down with? Blinds are 5/10.

[Vermicious Knid]

Assuming you are as good or better player then your opponents, you are putting yourself at a major disadvantage playing a short stack.

1. You don't make enough when you hit a big hand against someone who would have called for a lot more chips.

2. You can't play drawing hands effectively. Say you have $20 in the BB. Someone with $100 raises to $3 UTG. Three players call. It is $2 to you. You have J10s. You call. Flop is KQ4 rainbow. $15 in the pot, you have $17 left. You check, UTG bets $15 and one person calls. What do you do? You are getting 2 to 1 on your call, but need better than that to draw at the straight. If you have $70-80 left after calling the flop, you could consider making the call based on the implied odds. With a short stack, your implied odds will be negligible.

3. It is harder to bluff with a short stack. You aren't putting people to a difficult decision if calling your all-in is only a 5th of their stack.

4. You are giving too much up to the blinds and the rake. The blinds represent 7.5% of your stack every rotation. If you get a bad run of cards, your stack is severely depleted. You can certainly reload back up to $20, but a double-up doesn't double your investment.

5. You can't protect your hand. One of the beauties of NL is that you can charge your opponents a high enough price for their attempt to draw out on you that it is mathematically incorrect for them to do so. If you are on a short stack, you may not have the ability to do so. For example, you are dealt AA on the button. EP raises to 3, gets 1 caller. You raise to $10. Both players call. Flop is J104 with two spades. You only have say $15 left. You are most likely ahead here, but players with a straight or flush draw have the odds to call your all-in here. If you had a big stack, you could bet $30 or more and force them to fold or make a big mistake.

I think it is good to experiment, but I think you give up too many of the weapons available to a good NL player if you don't have a decent amount of chips in front of you.