starting hands

[nomdeplume]

Hi, I'm considering switching from limit to no limit (probably .025/0.50 or 0.5/1). I've skimmed a couple of no limit books and the starting hands they suggest tend to be very tight indeed. I then read the suggested starting hands on www.flopturnriver.com which are much looser. Can anyone give me an indication (or a link) of which hands I should be playing/raising and from which position? Thanks

[Biff M.]

It's all about your preferred style and a lot about the table context (short/full,loose/tight,aggressive/passive). And if you are Gus H you don't need cards at all at this level, you can simply outplay everyone, but I guess you're not that good.

I'll share some of my thoughts. I think tight is very right in NL. Like in limit the starting/raising hand requirements go down as you approach the button. I might open from CO or Button with hands like A7, KJ and 65s. Don't open for the minimum, I like 3x BB, some like 5x, and about 1 BB more for each limper. Try to find a standard, don't make it 10x with AA and 3x with TT.

In early position I throw hands like AJ and KQ, unless they're suited. I play any pocket pair, and I might play small suited connectors too if I'm a bit bored. These are hands that you don't fear being dominated with, so you can safely play them against a raise if there's a multi pot and the stacks allow it. Hands you don't wanna play raised is AJ, AT, KQ, KJ.

I'm sure these are things you will automatically see as you play and read this forum.

[nomdeplume]

Thanks very much for the advice. The amount to raise guidelines are particularly useful.

[boondockst]

[ QUOTE ]
It's all about your preferred style and a lot about the table context (short/full,loose/tight,aggressive/passive). And if you are Gus H you don't need cards at all at this level, you can simply outplay everyone, but I guess you're not that good.

I'll share some of my thoughts. I think tight is very right in NL. Like in limit the starting/raising hand requirements go down as you approach the button. I might open from CO or Button with hands like A7, KJ and 65s. Don't open for the minimum, I like 3x BB, some like 5x, and about 1 BB more for each limper. Try to find a standard, don't make it 10x with AA and 3x with TT.

In early position I throw hands like AJ and KQ, unless they're suited. I play any pocket pair, and I might play small suited connectors too if I'm a bit bored. These are hands that you don't fear being dominated with, so you can safely play them against a raise if there's a multi pot and the stacks allow it. Hands you don't wanna play raised is AJ, AT, KQ, KJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

You'll play any pocket pair but not usually AJ? I'm not saying it's gold but i'm folding any pp's under 99 to any decent raise, especially in a multiway pot..Through 6K hands my biggest losers have been 22 TT and even JJ...the 22 has been the worst, as AFTER i've hit my set on the flop i've been flushed and had set over set a few times. I'll take a pp heads up i guess but multiway small pairs don't hold up TOO well unless you hit your set and even then you can run into trouble...

I don't mean to go against all the books and advice written but for someone who is asking which hands to play, i'm not sure recommending baby suited connectors can be a good idea.
Again, i look at my stats for suited connectors 87 and below and i've had a loss with all of them..i never call a raise with them for the most part and have had some flops where i picked up an OESD and a backdoor flush draw and missed the outs...

While rare, higher flushes can definitely give you a 2nd best hand and get you in trouble...if you have 3d 4d and the flop comes 10d 8d Jd what is your play? I just played a live tournament last night with a very small amount of starting units and was amazed how many players tryed playing small suited connectors against all-ins...The funniest thing was when a guy busted with K3s vs. K8o he was shaking his head and saying "man, i was even suited"...

Also, maybe it's just me (i play UB only) but on the SSNL tables at UB pot-sized raises (especially PF) seem standard...for the most part, i get very suspicious when someone min-raises or overbets the pot...the reason being there's a button for betting the pot that is used by almost everyone for raises so it hides the strength or weakness of your hand....i'm sure for party it's different but just my 0.02

[MarkL444]

[ QUOTE ]
Through 6K hands my biggest losers have been

[/ QUOTE ]

6k hands isnt even remotely close to being a large enough sample to judge the value of a starting hand based on your results with them.

[boondockst]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Through 6K hands my biggest losers have been

[/ QUOTE ]

6k hands isnt even remotely close to being a large enough sample to judge the value of a starting hand based on your results with them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but frustrating enough to not rely on them as my bread and butter as the poster suggests.

22
26 times
Win: 15.38% (4 times)
BB/Hand <font color="red">(3.99) </font>

been backdoorflushed twice after hitting my set on the flop an had set over set on the flop once....just building an ingrained hatred for small pp's for anything but limping....

[MarkL444]

that is the definition of short term variance. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

you cannot focus on winnings and loses. if you feel you are playing 22 well but have been beaten a few times in large pots, thats poker.

[edge]

I play shorthanded (6-max), so my standards are a bit lower. I'll openraise with AQo+/AJs+/TT+ UTG (sometimes AJo, depending on the table; likewise, I'll sometimes limp with AJs) and limp with suited Broadways and any pocket pair. As I get closer to the button, I'll open with weaker hands, and as far as openraising from the button, I'll go for it with something like A7o+/A5s+/KTo+/K9s+/22+/T9+ (of course, it all depends on the texture of the game and how tight the blinds are).

[Sephus]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying it's gold but i'm folding any pp's under 99 to any decent raise, especially in a multiway pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

uh, you're playing no limit holdem?

imagine that you have ten dollar bills. you take five of them and put them in your wallet, then you take the other five and shred them up and flush them down the toilet.

this is basically what you are doing when you fold 88-22 preflop when the raise is less than 7% or so of your stack, even less than 10% of your stack if the other players are bad enough (in your game they are), and even less than 15% of your stack if the pot is multiway AND the players are bad.

[Sephus]

[ QUOTE ]

22
26 times
Win: 15.38% (4 times)
BB/Hand (3.99)


[/ QUOTE ]

BFD man, 26 times is nothing. talk to me when it's 226 times.

by the way, i have over 40k hands in PT and all my PPs are significant winners.