home game ethics ruling needed

[(my name it is) Sam Hall]

I'm not a regular 7stud player so I need some help with this one. It's HU between Hero and Villain. Hero is dealing.

Hero's door card is a 6, has T6 in the hole. Villain's door is X (I forget). Suits are unimportant.

5th street:
Hero: (T6)66T
Villain: (XX)X77
7th street:
Hero: (T6)66T2(X) <-- Hero does not look at 7th
Villain: (XX)X77Q(X)

Villain turns over one hole card, a 7. Hero turns over T6 and both reach for the pot. Hero says "Sixes full of tens," and starts taking in the pot. Villain looks upset and turns all three hole cards, showing Q7x for queens full, says nothing. Hero asks "Is that a queen?" "Yeah" "Then you have sevens full of queens?" "Yeah" "So you win." "I guess so" Hero realizes he hasn't looked at his final hole card. It's not another ten.

Who gets this pot? Villain claims to have not seen the overturned ten, and thinking Hero had a set of sixes, thinks the set of sevens he shows wins. Villain also claims to have looked at 7th street but not realized it made the full house. Both players should have just shown everything and let the cards speak... and so on, but that not what either one of us was smart enough to do.

What (hypothetical now) happens if Hero turns over his last (unseen) hole card and it's another ten, giving him tens full?

Sam

[greenage]

This reply is based on gut feel and not rules knowledge. OTOH, this being a home game you could have some interesting rules or none at all.

[ QUOTE ]
Who gets this pot? Villain claims to have not seen the overturned ten, and thinking Hero had a set of sixes, thinks the set of sevens he shows wins. Villain also claims to have looked at 7th street but not realized it made the full house. Both players should have just shown everything and let the cards speak... and so on, but that not what either one of us was smart enough to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even with all the shenanigans/confusion, Villain clearly has the best hand. Why should you get the pot?

The only possible way I see you geting the pot is if he mucked his hand, went back and got the cards and now there is some doubt about what he really had. (I assume some home games may allow this).

[ QUOTE ]
What (hypothetical now) happens if Hero turns over his last (unseen) hole card and it's another ten, giving him tens full?

[/ QUOTE ]

Same thing, why shouldn’t you win?

P.S. Your screen name is toooo long. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Nick_Foxx]

huh?!

[(my name it is) Sam Hall]

[ QUOTE ]
Even with all the shenanigans/confusion, Villain clearly has the best hand. Why should you get the pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah... that's what I figured, and I didn't put up too much of a fight. I see this a case where the Villain is probably being a jerk, but I'm powerless to stop him short of punching him in the back of the head on his way out.

[ QUOTE ]
P.S. Your screen name is toooo long. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, yet I don't change it. Go figure.

[bobman0330]

I don't see any ethical issue here at all. Even if he knew he had 7s full, it's only horrendously impolite to misannounce his hand. Regardless of what else goes on, the best live hand wins the pot. if you find out you have tens full, and your hand isn't in the muck, then it's yours, even if you had previously renounced the pot.

Punching him in the head would be battery.

[Andy B]

Best hand wins.

[7stud]

In home games, the rules I've always encountered are: the cards don't speak, i.e. you have to call your own hand, and everyone else is supposed to keep their mouths shut. But, to win a pot, you always have to show all seven cards.

Whenever I see someone that doesn't flip over all their cards, invariably they are angle shooting, and it is bad sportsmanship all the way. What can you do though? Your opponent sounds like he was being a jerk--even if he did misread his hand--by not showing all his cards, but you shouldn't have called his hand for him. Instead, you should have raked in the pot for yourself, and made him call his hand. I especially don't understand why you called the hand since you seem to want to punch the guy.

[MRBAA]

In future showdown situations, make sure whoever has the obligation to show first does so -- fully. The whole hand must be shown and you can (and should) request this. Then either muck if beaten or table your whole hand, declare it and take the pot.

In this hand, you would have taken the pot if you had another ten -- that would have been a sweet re-roll of his slow roll. Don't call your opponent's hand in any case. Do tell him he must show the whole thing AND his slow roll is not appreciated. In a casino, you often have to play with jerks. There's really no reason to in a home game, IMHO.

[(my name it is) Sam Hall]

I called my opponent's hand because, as usual, I didn't think fast enough to just keep my mouth shut. Too bad for me I guess.

Sam

[bobman0330]

More interesting question: is it unethical to take down the pot if your opponent doesn't realize that he has a hand to beat you?