QQ on ace high flop

dauler · #1 01-14-2005, 10:52 PM

How do you guys handle this situation? Both players are fairly loose, but I don't have a large number of hands with either. Is this an automatic bet on the flop, or are you always looking for spots to fold?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks, Button bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks, Button bets, MP1 calls, Hero folds.

River: (7.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

PoBoy321 · #2 01-14-2005, 10:55 PM

Lead out on the flop. You could have the best hand, but you'll only get called by a hand that beats you, but you don't want to give free cards to hands that will outdraw you. As for check/calling here, I really don't like that. If you're going to call, bet. It'll give you two ways to win, make the best hand or win right there.

Joe B. · #3 01-14-2005, 10:56 PM

high pocketpair

you should bet on the flop

Joe B. · #4 01-14-2005, 10:57 PM

if he leads the bet, and then get reraise? what should he do? just call?

JEM7VSBL · #5 01-14-2005, 11:01 PM

if you check the flop like you did, then calling a bet is close call here, you're getting 10.5-1 on an 11-1 draw, i'd probably fold the flop here with one other caller. i'd bet/call the flop and check/fold the turn. you want to pick up the pot on the flop if you can.

PoBoy321 · #6 01-14-2005, 11:03 PM

I would fold to a reraise or lead the turn if I only get called by one player. There are a few draws out there, so you don't want to give free cards, but at the same time, the A is out there so you could easily be beat. This is definitely a tough spot to be in, but I would definitely fold to a raise on the turn, and if the villain hasn't shown aggression, check/call the river.

The way that the hand played out, with 2 players in the hand, there's no way that the hero is ahead here. There's got to be at least one A or 9 out there, so I think that he was right to check/fold the turn. The only way I would have played it differently would be to lead on the flop.

Argus · #7 01-15-2005, 12:07 AM

Like everyone else I think it's important to lead the flop. When raised I call, and watch for the flush redraw on the turn. If your redraw comes check/call the turn since you're now drawing to 11 outs, otherwise check/fold it. You might discount those outs if you think MP1 is on a flush draw, but you still have sufficient pot odds even when drawing to 9 outs.

dauler · #8 01-15-2005, 10:02 PM

Results in white below: 
MP1 has 5h 4d (one pair, nines).
Button has 7h 7s (two pair, nines and sevens).
Outcome: Button wins 7.75 BB. 

Like you said I should have led the flop, it cost me the pot. Thanks for the advice, this is a big leak in my game. What number of opponents/number of overcards/type of overcard/texture of board would make it more or less likely for you to continue to bet with a pair that you raised preflop when an overcard comes? Like QQ against 5 opponents is a clear check when AKx come out, JJ is a clear bet heads up when Qxx comes out, when do those situations become marginal?