AKs - how's my thinking?

[nnoobi]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

UTG is 50%/6%/1.2
MP1 is 60%/0%/0.2
Others seem reasonable.

Flop: (11 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks.

I don't lead out on the turn. It seems that betting into 4 players, two with 'reasonable' hands is wrong. First to act is tough here.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, MP2 folds, CO folds, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Given that he's 60%/0%/0.3, I imagine he's not bluffing. I look at my outs - 4 10s, 3 Aces, 3 Kings. I down grade the Aces and Kings by 2 cards as they might not be outs. This leaves me 8 outs.

Pot is 6.5BB, I call.


River: (8.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG folds.

I convince myself that maybe MP1 is bluffing and UTG is probably gonna fold as well. Plus, maybe this qualifies as a large pot where I should fold for just one bet. I read that in a book somewhere.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

Pre-flop seems standard.
I wonder what people think about the flop - is that simply weak-tight?
Turn seems standard.
River seems questionable. I have just grown too fond of my hand?

Lastly, if you don't agree with the River call, are there characteristics for MP1 that would justify the call on the River with a player still to act?

rabbit

[Harv72b]

Bet the flop.

Bet the turn.

Check/fold the river.

You have to give pocket pairs &amp; jacks a chance to fold here. If you get raised, then you can play the check/call game as far as pot odds will allow, but for goodness sakes, if someone with a 0.2 AF bets the river, fold your A high.

[Piiop]

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Bet the flop.

Bet the turn.

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Why?

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bet the flop.

Bet the turn.

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Why?

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[ QUOTE ]
You have to give pocket pairs &amp; jacks a chance to fold here.

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Besides which he's on a pretty solid draw with 2 overs &amp; a gutshot to the nuts.

Am I wrong?

[adamstewart]

Clearly bet out on the flop.

With "8 outs" as you described, you're clearly going to call anyway. Plus, betting out will very likely slim the field.

If you get raised, you'll know to slow down.

Adam

[dantheman_05]

BET THE FLOP ! this is a big pot. you want to win it. push weak hands (like J10) out. you will normally be rasied, but thats what you want. you bet and otehr player rasies, now you are close to heads up to winning this big pot, and you will be able to call him down. your right this was classic weak tight. anytim the pot was rasied preflop and 4 players saw the flop tahts a big pot. if you bet and otehr raises maybe AJ folds and you catch an ace to win against KQ. everyone checked the flop so they were weak and you could have thinned out the crowed clearly. dont be afraid to get your chips in there for big pots. on the other hand fold marginal hands when the pot is small. your river call was ok. you were gonna check call this flop. might as well bet.

[Piiop]

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Besides which he's on a pretty solid draw with 2 overs &amp; a gutshot to the nuts.

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Where's the solid draw? He has a gutshot and 2 overcards that could be reverse dominated. He is out of position against 4 opponents. Betting to fold players out is just not going to happen.

[Piiop]

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Plus, betting out will very likely slim the field.

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No, it most definitely won't.

[Piiop]

[ QUOTE ]
BET THE FLOP ! this is a big pot. you want to win it. push weak hands (like J10) out. you will normally be rasied, but thats what you want. you bet and otehr player rasies, now you are close to heads up to winning this big pot, and you will be able to call him down. your right this was classic weak tight. anytim the pot was rasied preflop and 4 players saw the flop tahts a big pot. if you bet and otehr raises maybe AJ folds and you catch an ace to win against KQ. everyone

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So your reason to bet this flop is basically that you will be raised by a hand that now has you reverse dominated (KQ) which will cause another hand that has you reverse dominated (AJ) to fold so that you can hit your miracle 2-outer Ace on the river? That's a good plan.

[Fat Nicky]

[ QUOTE ]
will normally be rasied, but thats what you want. you bet and otehr player rasies, now you are close to heads up to winning this big pot, and you will be able to call him down

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly what you want with just A high.