2 pair on the flop, they're betting into me with the worst turn card

Pil Sung Do · #1 01-14-2005, 12:19 AM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Hero raises, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, CO raises, Hero ???

Calling down +EV?

private joker · #2 01-14-2005, 12:44 AM

I think I can find a fold here. CO's play look like a standard holding with a 9. MP1's stop and go is weird too, but if you have him beat I think CO's got you. You only have 4 outs to fill up, and you're not getting odds to chase that.

adamstewart · #3 01-14-2005, 12:52 AM

Fold immediately.

You raised the flop. Now there's a bet and a raise into you on the turn... you're very, very, very likely behind.

At best, you're paying 2 BB's to win 9.5 BB's (4.75:1), AND THIS IS IF MP1 DOESN'T RERAISE. As private joker said, this doesn not even give you close to the 10:1 odds you need to fill up.

Edit: For the record, your "gutshot draw" to the *chance* of a chop is worthless.

Adam

Pil Sung Do · #4 01-14-2005, 11:13 PM

For the record, I folded. I didn't see the odds to draw as mentioned.

And of course... I would have filled on the river. I am not results oriented, but wondered if there might have been hidden outs I missed to make calling profitable.

private joker · #5 01-14-2005, 11:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
For the record, I folded. I didn't see the odds to draw as mentioned.

And of course... I would have filled on the river. I am not results oriented, but wondered if there might have been hidden outs I missed to make calling profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really. If someone just hit 2 pair with the Q, you don't have any hidden outs -- his queens up beat your jacks up no matter how many other lower cards pair. You definitely had 4 outs (and if he had QT or QJ, you had even fewer).

.

.

.

NB: Hmmm... I just noticed something. "Beat your jacks up" sounds like a great Chemical Brothers song title. Or the 4th album from The Go! Team or something.

Swills · #6 01-14-2005, 11:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Hero raises, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, CO raises, Hero ???

Calling down +EV?

[/ QUOTE ]

Man oh man. I have been in that postion too many times and every time the flop is coordinated. Of course I always thought my top two are good but I was always way behind.

So what I learned is this, when the board is that coordinated just check and call. Hope you make a boat cause someone already has the straight.

o0mr_bill0o · #7 01-14-2005, 11:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Hero raises, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, CO raises, Hero ???

Calling down +EV?

[/ QUOTE ]

Man oh man. I have been in that postion too many times and every time the flop is coordinated. Of course I always thought my top two are good but I was always way behind.

So what I learned is this, when the board is that coordinated just check and call. Hope you make a boat cause someone already has the straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

i sincerely hope that you're joking...

Mike Gallo · #8 01-14-2005, 11:47 PM

Yoodan,

Preflop, depending on how your opponents play you can raise there. In some game you will have reverse implied odds in play if you raise in this spot. It all depends on the dynamic of the table at the time. I almost always raise unless I have someone acting before me who will limp with hands like AJ and AQ or aven AK.

Tough turn decision. You dont have top two, you have four parts to a straight onboard and a very scary board.

I would lay it down most of the time.

I like the new name

Edited to correct some mistakes [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Swills · #9 01-14-2005, 11:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Hero raises, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, CO raises, Hero ???

Calling down +EV?

[/ QUOTE ]

Man oh man. I have been in that postion too many times and every time the flop is coordinated. Of course I always thought my top two are good but I was always way behind.

So what I learned is this, when the board is that coordinated just check and call. Hope you make a boat cause someone already has the straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

i sincerely hope that you're joking...

[/ QUOTE ]

Notice Newb under my name. I aint joking. In my expierence with these situations I find it best to c/c. You can raise all want but the ones who made the straight aint going no where. Especially when the turn now makes it so a 9 completes the straight.

But again, I'm still a beginner and have a lot to learn. This is what I wanted to share so if you got some info that crushes my thinking, please share. Show me a better way cause I too am here to learn all I can.

Mike Gallo · #10 01-15-2005, 12:01 AM

i sincerely hope that you're joking...

How come?