A tough turn call.... with top pair on monotone board

Jonny · #1 01-12-2005, 04:27 PM

No real reads, just sat down so PT has not loaded many HH's yet. Mabye 6 or 7, so no stats or reads.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero calls, 3 folds, MP3 calls, CO raises, Button calls, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (16 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB 3-bets, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero ???

 Plan for the rest of the hand???

J.R. · #2 01-12-2005, 04:57 PM

fold preflop. don't open limps T9s utg, don't call 2 back to you. I could fold on the turn against a lot of people with a clear consceince, especially with the button still hanging around.

Your best case is he 3-bet AhK (maybe AhQ) and is overplaying and button has another biggish heart and perhaps an overcard, or maybe a heart + straight draw (button called 2 prelfop) (but even then SB has 14 outs, so he will draw out on you 1/3 of the time you are ahead of both him and the button on the turn, plus the button wil draw out), but that seems unlikely given his position and the button still in there.

One of them certainly has at least one heart, and it seems fairly unlikly neither has a pair.

RichHarden · #3 01-12-2005, 05:24 PM

Fold preflop, you're out of position and don't know how many limpers you'll get. Fold when its 2 more bets back to you. This is a costly leak in your game, you shouldn't have a turn decision in the first place.

PokerBob · #4 01-12-2005, 05:30 PM

I will limp this in EP, but without any reads on what the table is like, I think you are taking a risk of it getting raised behind you.......and ......it happened twice. This is an easy muck IMO pf once it is 2-cold back to you.

Now that you're in this mess, I like the flop raise.....he doesn't have a flush (at least it's unlikey, but the fact that he 3-bet the flop smells like an overpair to me.)

Assuming he has an overpair with a heart, you have 4 clean outs to 2 pair or trips. With 12.5 BB in there, you have proper odds to call on the turn. That said, you got yourself in a mess by playing this pf.

Call the turn. If you make a non-heart 2-pair or trips, bet the river and call a raise.

PokerBob · #5 01-12-2005, 05:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
fold preflop. don't open limps T9s utg, don't call 2 back to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think one can make this limp if one knows what the table is like (i.e. loose and passive) but in this case it is an unknown, so mucking is the right move.

Jonny · #6 01-12-2005, 06:30 PM

is JQs playable typically UTG? KQs?

And would you raise KQs UTG?

GuyOnTilt · #7 01-12-2005, 06:38 PM

Hey Jonny,

I won't comment on your PF limp because I don't know the texture of those tables well enough. I would suspect that there will be tables where T9s will be fine to limp with here, but don't know if they're plentiful enough to do so without any reads yet. Once it's two bets back to you though, you need to let it go. Your implied odds aren't good and your relative position sucks for your hand here. Definite fold.

On the flop, when the SB bets out, YOU NEED TO FOLD. You're going to be giving up quite a bit of expectation by playing on in these situations, which do come up fairly often. Forget the turn decision for now. Learn to fold to the SB's bet here.

GoT