Rules?

[crockett]

I have a couple rules questions I need clarified. It seems like whenever I play in these “home” tournaments conflicts come up and everyone always looks to me just because I play a lot of cards (mostly online but a fair share of B&M) as well. The problem is I never run in to conflicts (especially online of course) so I really don’t even know the answers.

Scenario #1
NL Hold’em Tournament – Final Table.

Player A bets the Flop and Turn.
Player B calls the Flop and Turn.
Player A checks the River, Player B checks the River.

Player B turns over his cards and shows them. Player A mucks his cards.

Player B wants to see Player A’s cards…big discussion, blah, blah, blah…

Ignoring the controversial rule of “you must show your cards when asked”

Who shows first? I was always under the impression that it was the last aggressor. In this case it would be Player A because he bet the turn. But I don’t know.

Finally, ignoring the “you must show your cards when asked” rule, if it happens the way I described it, must Player A show his cards? I believe the answer is No.

Scenario #2
NL Hold’em Tournament – Final Table

Player A bets the Flop and Turn.
Player B bets the Flop and Tuirn.
Player A checks the River, Player B checks the River.

The board ends up QQTTT.

Player A asks Player B “Do you have a Q or T?” Player B says no and shows his cards to prove it.

Player A says “then it is a split pot and mucks his cards.” Player B demands that Player A must show his cards to get half of the pot. Player A reasons that there is no need to show his cards because it doesn’t matter what he holds, at the worst it is indeed a split pot and he is entitled to half of it. His reasoning is correct but what do the rules say about this?

Couldn’t both of these situations been avoided if Player B would have just waited and forced Player A to show his card because he must show first?

Finally, what is the most commonly used method for deciding who must first show there cards in a showdown? For both HU and multway post?

Scenario #3
NL Hold'em Tournament

Some yahoo was trying to tell everyone that they are not allowed to count their chips while they are making a decision about whether or not to bet, raise or check because you could be soliciting for a reaction from your opponent.

I told him this was crazy and you could do just about anything you wanted to do with your chips including count them, chip tricks, stack and unstack, etc. with a few obvious exceptions like making a fake motion, etc.

I hope I'm right on this or I made a fool out of myself and I owe him an apology.

Thanks.

[Lurshy]

I am by no means an authority, but from what I've experienced.

Hand 1:

Player B acted out of turn whether going by last aggressor, or going clockwise from dealer. Once player B acted out of turn, A can muck. Player A doesn't have to show unless you are enforcing the if-more-than-one-in-on-the-river-anyone-in-the-hand-can-ask-to-see-the-cards rule.

Senario 2:

You need to show both hole cards to participate in a winning hand. This is required even if the board plays. It is the reason in B&M when one person flashes an Ace to show top pair, I jump down their throat and make them show the kicker before allowing the dealer to push the pot.

Player A mucked, he can be denied the split pot. BTW, pocket KK or AA also would deny a split pot.

Senario 3

I am fairly certain that the person that says you can't count your chips is an idiot, JMHO.

Remember though, the advice I give is often only worth what you pay for it.

- Lurshy

[jtr]

Completely agree with Lurshy.

Off topic, but player A sounds like a bit of an ass.

[TomCollins]

I believe you are correct except in situation 2. You can announce you are playing the board and not show any cards. I've never seen this, but I've heard of it. Might be worth checking out Robert's Rules.

[stabn]

#1:
A initiated the last action on the river (by checking) and shows first.
#2
Again A initiated the last action on the river (by checking) and shows first. Had B bet and then A called on the river, B would show first.

Also, by mucking his cards he loses his share of the pot. He has to show his cards. It's up to you or whoever is runnig the game if you want to enforce it in this case or just give him a warning since it's obviously a split. The general rule though is that if you don't table your hands you don't get your share of the pot.

#3
You are correct. You can do that all day.