restealing short-handed

[schwza]

these hands are from a UB tourney i played a few months ago, so my memory of reads is dim. i do remember thinking that the big stack was not stealing as much as i would have been in his shoes.

hand 1:
4 handed, 1k/2k with 200 antes
utg 120k
button 26k
hero (SB) 27k
BB 27k

utg folds
button min-raises to 4k
hero folds A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

i know this is a tough question to answer without better info about reads, but is this too tight?

btw, if i push, villain is getting odds such that he needs to win 37% to make it break-even in terms of chipEV.

hand 2:
next orbit, stacks are about the same, and again utg folds, villain min raises from the button, and i am in the SB with 66.

i fold.

does it seem like i'm playing too tight here?

[zaxx19]

Yup A10s is a pretty big hand shoerthanded I reraise to 10k bc it looks even stronger than moving in....No way Im folding to a reraise either.

[kuro]

A lot of it depends on the type of player the villain is, the difference in pay between 4th and 2nd or 3rd,how easily you can steal, and how likely you think it is that the other short stacks self destruct with aggressive play.

Both of those hands are decent to defend with short handed provided that villain knows how to fold, you're playing for 1st. Hand 1 I'd probably reraise. Hand 2 I'd probably smooth call and go from there.

[ijustliketoplay]

Personally, I think you are playing way too tight shorthanded here. THe blinds are quite beefy so unless you are just hanging in there hoping to fold your way to more money, i'd think those hands were well worth playing.

I'd re raise half my stack with a 10 and stop and go with a favourable looking flop on the 66's.

[schwza]

that's interesting. i think that on both hands the best play is to push or fold.

with ATs, if i reraise w/ out pushing, there's no way i'm going to get away from the hand if he pushes. the stacks are too shallow for that, and there's some chance he'll play back with a smaller ace. if he flat calls, then i have the dubious privelege of playing out of position on a flop that will likely miss me, but so much of my stack will be in the middle that i don't think i could fold.

as for stop-n-going with 66, part of the problem is that he could have a wide range of hands. if the flop comes up 8 Q 3, i would ordinarily say that's a good flop for me, but he could easily be stealing with Q9 or K8. he very likely has overcards to my 6's. if i stop and go he calls when he makes a pair and folds when he doesn't. why not push now and take that flexibility away from him? that way at least i get his whole stack against a missed AK.

the only advantage i see to flat calling instead of pushing here is that then the BB comes over the top, i can fold the hand.

[woodguy]

Hand 1- Push. You are ahead of many, many, many hands that he makes this play with, and you really don't want to play this hand out of position post flop. You can maximize your FE too. If you raise at all PF you might as well push it all in now given your stack.

Hand 2-Fold. You changed my mind on how to play small pairs in the blinds in a thread regarding one of Toro's hands (he had 66 too). You don't want to put all your chips in hoping for a coinflip, praying your not dominated.
I like a stop and go here too, but folding is not horrible.

edit: thought you were in BB in hand 2, given that you are SB, if you flat call the BB is coming along so you are really playing for a set or a really ragged flop, not the S&G.

Regards,
Woodguy

[freewillig]

no way I fold either of these. Now, generally, I think your best play is to push the first hand, but I've been seeing flops more often on these lately. I actually prefer to play the post-flop out of position to have the check raise available if I hit. If you don't hit, the "smooth call pre flop, coupled with check raise after the flop is a pretty darned good bluff. If you don't want to bluff, you still have plenty to play with and can get out. The only problem, is if you've run into a big pair, but then you were in trouble from the start. If you play the first hand and take him down, my guess is he probably doesn't make this play the 2nd time around.

[woodguy]

I used the same range of hands for villian in both scenarios (any A, any K, Q7 or greater, J9 or greater, any pair)

With ATs you are 60%, with 66 you are 55%.

I expected the 66 to be almost even $$$.

I probably push the 66 too.

I wouldn't call an all in bet from the button with it, but I don't mind going overtop of his minraise.

Regards,
Woodguy