On Tilt re: JJ

BruinEric · #1 01-08-2005, 05:00 AM

Last week I posted a few JJ hands because I was perplexed. Tonight I'm just about on tilt re: JJ. After I had it cracked for the 2nd time tonight -- well, once I folded with 2 overcards on board and a Bet / Re-Raise to me, the other time I got sucked out.

Then I whip out PT to see what's happened in the approx 2200 hands I've done at Paradise. It shows me that I win 7.69% of my JJ hands (1 of 13), and it's costing me 2.52 BB/Hand.

Here's my other relevant stats on the hand.
Went to SD: 69.23%
PF Raise: 100%

Can someone else give me their JJ stats and give me some hope here?

I can show a few examples of when I folded, but except for 2 folds to people who didn't show, I would theoretically have lost all other folds to made hands.

I'm convinced of the PF raise to hopefully force out A4, K5, etc. But after the flop with even one overcard up should I slow down and just call-down or fold on unimproved JJ?

illunious · #2 01-08-2005, 05:15 AM

Dude, it's 13 times. Talking about getting JJ "cracked" in a microlimit game is absolutely ridiculous.

Your went to sd is low, mine is 100% and 4.5 BB per hand and it wins 100% of the time out of the last 1 times i've had it.

Sorry, if you can see the irony in that, then you will realize what a small sample 13 hands is.

The best way to fix leaks in playing high pairs is to review hands (replay window in PT). There's no way for anyone to say that you're over or "under" playing JJ based on PT stats from 13 hands.

I feel bad for posting this, so here's some proof (all from .5/1, sorted by BB/hand, old database):
link

bottomset · #3 01-08-2005, 05:25 AM

JJ is a tricky hand at micros, its about the bottom end of premium hands

variance is pretty big with pocket pairs, for example you could hit your set on the next 2 times you have them win 12-15BB each and be back near-0 or slightly ahead

BruinEric · #4 01-08-2005, 05:33 AM

Thanks for your reply.

What I'd love to see is how JJ is performing over a more significant sample size from someone else.

For example, based on PT stats for low pocket pairs in EP in a thread started by BisonBison, I am experimenting with these plays. Why? Because at this level of play, I see that others are making money with those hands in that position.

Therefore, my invitation is a beg that a better player than I show me that they're winning with this hand playing at least aggressively pre flop and at least modestly aggressively on flop. I want that bonus piece of confidence to see that it can be done because I want to play JJ more aggressively than I play 99.

As far as plugging leaks, I've posted a few JJ hands and I'm doing searches to review others as well.

illunious · #5 01-08-2005, 05:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for your reply.

What I'd love to see is how JJ is performing over a more significant sample size from someone else.

[/ QUOTE ]

See my edit [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

illunious · #6 01-08-2005, 05:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
JJ is a tricky hand at micros, its about the bottom end of premium hands

[/ QUOTE ]

If by the bottom end of premium hands you mean the 4th bestest starting hand, then yes.

Womble · #7 01-08-2005, 07:38 AM

4th best? Certainly not in a 10max ring game. Dont know the exact order but it is something like AA, KK, AKs, QQ, AKo, AQs, JJ.

JJ is horrible becuase it is just high enough to hold its own but if a A or K flops you have to tread carefully

soko · #8 01-08-2005, 07:44 AM

JJ, 29 times, win 55%, net $50, AV BB/hand $1.75, Won showdown 60%

BruinEric · #9 01-08-2005, 12:55 PM

Illunious,

That link was really helpful to see. Aside from confirming the profitability of JJ, your WtSD is just over 50%, which is instructive at the macro level.

I will apply this stat appropriately by flipping a coin each flop to determine if I call down or fold. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

But seriously, I think I've called a few too many small bets/raises on the flop in dubious circumstances.

I'm glad your original post led you to edit to show your stats. But I already know by posting here that there's going to be some smack thrown around, and I'm perfectly fine with that.

martinimagic · #10 01-08-2005, 01:16 PM

This post really caught my attention. I have the same problem only not with JJ, but KK. I got a copy of PT a couple of weeks back and realized I am losing a train load of bets with KK. I am only a beginner (6000 hands), but my experience is the micro-limits are loaded with players starting with just one high card, K or A It's hard enough with KK and with JJ if I miss the set I fold quite often.. of course it depends on overcards, the other players, etc. By not overplaying the pairs I have plugged some leaks in my game. Hope it helps.