Is this a bad fold in this size pot?

arabie · #1 01-07-2005, 08:25 PM

No reads on players and i just joined the table. I was really worried about the button, but was surpised to see him fold the river. Because of this, there are no available results, but what would you have done?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, Hero raises, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, Button raises, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, Button bets, SB calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

River: (12 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: 13 BB

JinX11 · #2 01-07-2005, 08:40 PM

If you're not committed to showing down, I think the turn call is terrible.

In the end, what do you hope you're ahead of?? Not much out there.... Seems like an easy (turn) fold.

arabie · #3 01-07-2005, 08:45 PM

I agree. But it was only one bet at 9-1 and i did have top pair. The bettor could've been bluffing or picked up a one card flush draw. With no strength shown by any other players, and the possibility of seeing a free river or at most one bet (i assumed the button would bet out, not SB), i saw the turn as a justifiable call. Is this wrong?

Chuckles1248 · #4 01-07-2005, 08:55 PM

Depending on what kind of player the Button is, there aren't really a whole lot of hands that you beat that he raises the flop with. I agree with folding the turn, because with no read the only real hand the button could have that you win against is AT or A9, and it's much more likely he has two pair or a better ace.

arabie · #5 01-07-2005, 09:02 PM

I wasn't so sure he had a much better hand. If he did, i think he would've overcalled rather than protecting his hand by putting two cold on the rest of the field. At the time i thought he was protecting a hand like KsQo, which would explain his turn bet as well.

JinX11 · #6 01-07-2005, 09:02 PM

Button showed some strength on the flop, I think, and the turn. SB's cold call on the flop concerns me more, however.

I see it as having to call 2 BB (turn, river) in a 13-14 BB pot (depending of the play of Button/SB) assuming you are going to showdown ("effective odds"). So, do I think I'm good 1 time in 6.5-7; I do not. The flush draw came in, every Broadway card is out but your J; unless I have a read on my opponent that he bluffs often, I'd let this go.

arabie · #7 01-07-2005, 09:06 PM

you can't see this hand winning more tahn 15% of the time? I just figured that if you are meant to call 10-1 if you only beat a bluff, calling 7-1 with top pair can't be that bad.

JinX11 · #8 01-07-2005, 09:13 PM

Again, depends on reads. Unless you know something otherwise about your opponents that you're not sharing, SB should concern you when he's cold-calling pre/post flop and button has shown you plenty enough strength for me to feel that I am much more likely to be beaten than I am to be ahead. You have no draws to bigger hands and there are just many, many likely hands that beat you.

JinX11 · #9 01-07-2005, 09:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
calling 7-1 with top pair can't be that bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Using this reasoning, you should have thought your top pair was *GREAT* getting 13-1 on the river, yeah?

pokerjunky · #10 01-07-2005, 09:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Depending on what kind of player the Button is, there aren't really a whole lot of hands that you beat that he raises the flop with. I agree with folding the turn, because with no read the only real hand the button could have that you win against is AT or A9, and it's much more likely he has two pair or a better ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding the turn here would be really weak IMO.