TT in the BB

[Hallett]

Live 6/12 game. Table is loose passive and bad. SB is good, but that is the only player on the table to worry about.

Hero is dealt T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in the BB. 5 players see the flop, including the sb. Hero raises, all stay in for 10 sb pot.

Flop is A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

sb checks, Hero bets out. Folded to C/O (loose passive) who calls. sb checkraises. Hero calls, C/O calls. pot is now 16 sb.

Turn is T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] SB bets out, Hero calls, C/O calls. 11 BB in the pot.

River is J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB checks, Hero bets, C/O calls, SB folds. 13 BB pot.

All thoughts appreciated, especially the flop, ie. check it through, bet it out, fold to the C/raise, reraise, etc. Should the turn be raised instead of called?

[bisonbison]

raise the turn, nice hand.

[Hallett]

Thanks. I was kicking myself after for not raising, especially after I get shown K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Raise the turn, raise the turn, raise the turn....I should have to write it out 100 times on the blackboard..

[Equal]

This is one of the worst flops you can get with your hand and the flop is where I have been racking my brain thinking about the different options.

You do have a flush draw, although it is to the 3rd nut. This is the big decision here - do you shut down here and not bothering putting in any more money into the pot? The big problem is that the pot is multi-way, and you are either barely ahead or WAY behind.

However, although I am fine with check folding this hand against four opponents (or even three as you mention), I think I bet out here to test the waters. I almost always bet the flop after putting in the last raise pre-flop, and the pot is quite large and the table is passive and bad. Your opponents may chase with some weak hands - a worse heart, a gutshot straight, or mid pair.

When the SB check-raises, I am pretty much done with the hand unless I spike my T or high heart on the turn. It is usually okay to make a loose call on the flop when raised.

Hallett wrote:
Turn is T club SB bets out, Hero calls, C/O calls. 11 BB in the pot.

I like calling the turn here, as a raise won't shake the CO if he has a big heart anyway. If he has an ace, he pretty much drawing dead anyway, so let him put his money in. Dont give him a chance to make an easy fold by raising.

Hallett wrote:
River is J Heart. SB checks, Hero bets, C/O calls, SB folds. 13 BB pot.


I check call this river. By betting, you open youself to a raise from the K Heart or possibly even the Q Heart (although you read the CO as passive). Also, a smaller heart may bet if checked too.

Now that I have dissected this hand trying to justify betting the flop, it just CAN'T happen. The flop is just too ugly. When you see that flop you need to say to yourself, "No good can come of this." I was going to delete everything I wrote but I figure it might be useful to leave it there.

Check-fold the flop and save your money for better spots. Even though the pot is large, there's too many opponents, you have too weak a hand and there's too many cards that can come on the turn and river to beat you.

Check-fold the flop, and this is from someone with very LAGgy tendencies.

[Equal]

ttt for more opinions on the flop and turn.