My new favorite play (loose 5-5 NL)

[Cornell Fiji]

Last night was my 3rd time playing in an NYC cardroom (the first two times being two nights and four nights ago.) On my first two visits to the card room I descovered that the level of play was quite poor and extremely loose-agressive and that the players were quite capable of making huge calls but few seemed able to make a big laydown.

Before this session I decided that when the situation was right I would exploit this tendency by grossly overbetting the pot when I held a monster. Big bets are given NO respect in this game and often an all-in will be called more often than a $150 river bet. The players are Mike Caro to the extreme and if you can appear 'strong' enough when making a big bet they will just know that you are bluffing.

I have been playing for an hour an a half and my $500 stack has gone up to $900 and back down to $600 after a moderately bad beat when this hand came up and gave me a perfect opportunity to utilize the overbet.

3 limpers to me on the button with 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] I raise to $30. To my dismay BB (~$1000) makes it $75 to go (he has AK, AQs, or TT-AA) all fold and I call hoping to crack his monster (and because I am fairly aggressive and I don't want people to start playing back at me, besides the big lick is my lucky hand)

Flop ($190) 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
BB bets $50 I call

Turn ($290) A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
BB checks, I decide this is the perfect opportunity to overbet the pot. My rationale is that if he has KK/QQ then a bet of $150 will induce a fold at least 3/4 of the time because he will fear a followup bet on the river. however, he might see weakness in my overbet and call, also he might try to catch me on a bluff with as little as TT (ive seen calls with less in this game)...

I go 'all-in' for $475.
BB says (ver batum) 'I was worried about that club but you wouldn't have gone all in with the flush. I think you're bluffing, I have an ace, I call' and flips up AK. MHIG

He reacted perfectly to my play. And when he said those words, explaining the exact thought process I was trying to induce, it was simply beautiful.

THREE more times in this session I was called with a gross overbet when I held a monster (One time was set over set where all the money was going in anyway.) What THIS did was set up certain players to be bluffed later on. At the table we usually had only two or three people who were paying attention to the other players in the game (these people were easily recognized by the fact that they held $1250+ on the table for a few hours where the others lost money whenever they won a big pot by making a 'great call') I knew that these bigger stacks were paying attention to the fact that I overbet my monsters and this allowed me to overbet them on bluffs, gaining me a lot of money when they made 'big laydowns' (and often showed me their 2 pair etc.)

This is a new strategy for me and in this cardroom it works to perfection, it is obviously important to know your opponents and know which ones pride themselves on making 'big calls' and which ones 'big laydowns' but with a solid knowledge of my opponents this play can be extreamly effective.

DISCLAIMER: NOT FOR USE IN ONLINE PLAY UNLESS YOU ARE SPIRIT ROCK (/Mahatma?)

[Cornell Fiji]

Later in the night my game has broken and after a short dinner break I was sitting at a new table with ~$850.

This table was very similar to the first as people were making rediculous bluffs and even more insane calls.

The following hand came up at this new table.

I (~$850) am on the BB with 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Button (~700) calls ($5) SB (~$3000) checks, I make it $25, both call.

3 see the flop ($75)
A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB checks, I bet $50, Button calls, SB calls

Turn ($225) 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
SB checks, I bet $75, Button calls, SB calls

River ($450) 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
SB checks, I bet $600 all-in, button folds, SB goes into the tank and says 'this sure smells like KK to me' I just dont think you have that ace, I have an ace (he flashes A6,) He thought for 5 full minutes (this is a time pot game!) and mucks.

Now I could have most likely gotten $100 out of his TPNK (~80% of the time) but if I bet $175-300 he is out like a light. The beatuty of this play is that I had him thinking about a call with A6 and I gaurantee that he makes this call AT LEAST 1/3 of the time because he just senses weakness in the overbet.

After the session I told a friend of mine who was watching that I had quads on that hand (he knew I had a monster because I had told him about the overbet strategy) and he asked why I wouldnt just bet $150 there. Obviously if I think that he will call the overbet 1/3 of the time this play is much more +EV than a smaller raise and thus is a significantly better play.

Does anyone else consistently overbet their monsters in games with similar players as this one (obviously such a play is less effective if youre a regular?)

Obviously this is something that I should have been doing for a long time and it is tough to think about all of the money that I have lost making simple 'value bets' but thats why I am constantly trying to learn and improve my game, plays like this one that I would not make before reading everyone go nuts about Spirit Rock is a move that I am quickly falling in love with.

[Wayfare]

Did you happen to read my poker essay on overbets?

NYC cardrooms = Party poker NL with deeper stacks. Just make sure they don't follow you into the parking lot if you are in brooklyn.

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Cornell Fiji]

[ QUOTE ]
Did you happen to read my poker essay on overbets?

NYC cardrooms = Party poker NL with deeper stacks. Just make sure they don't follow you into the parking lot if you are in brooklyn.

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

No, can you link to it please? (im sure it stated what I just tried to explain in a much more succinct fassion)

The competition at this club is simply terrible, there is no other way to put it. If I could play there every night a haul of 300k would be a bad year, but alas, I have classes to attend.

As for the safety of the clubs, I am actually quite nervous. This club closes at 7:00am and I have been the last table to leave all 3 times I went but I usually put some money in each sock, $150 in the wallet, and the rest in the jacket when I leave, hoping that if I get mugged I don't lose it all (side note, is this a -EV play as if I piss someone off through these shenannagins it could end up in a shanking?)

Anyway, I'm rambling a bit. Please link to your essays!

-Steve

[kirisim]

was this at the PS club on 14th st?

[Wayfare]

It's on the top left "2+2 Internet Magazine" under "Getting Paid off Huge."

I also get nervous when I head all the way down to Brooklyn to play. Some of those guys are legitimately on coke. If I had to pick a type of guy to take money off of it would be the genial "gambool" asian guys, but they are usually better than the rest.

[JFB37]

Sounds more like the joint on 72d street to me.

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

[ QUOTE ]
Sounds more like the joint on 72d street to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would say either UES or UWS...

[Cornell Fiji]

As ammusing as all of these guesses are (I suppose this isnt the only NYC club with loose players who feel that they absolutely must never lay down a hand if they might be ahead) I am going to tell you all where this club is in an attempt to get the subject matter back to the pros and cons of over betting in games such as these.

APC on 61st

[turnipmonster]

I knew it wasn't PS, as that game isn't as soft as you describe and is generally a lot deeper. one of these days I'm going to make it out to APC. does the 5-5 go every night?

--turnipmonster