Young players these days...

[dtbog]

I've been reading a lot of posts lately about "those damn kids who watch too much WPT and come out to casinos thinking they're hot shit".

As a 20-year old poker player who indeed wears a backwards baseball cap, I welcome these sorts of looks/comments when I sit down at a card table -- they reassure me that the upcoming session will be an easy one. It's not too hard to recognize the players from whom you instantly get no respect, and value bet the hell out of them.

I was in my local bookstore the other day, and walked by the "Gambling" section to see a middle-aged man looking through books on Texas Hold'em. As he picked up a book I'd never heard of, I recommended HEFAP, S/S, and TOP -- and he seemed so put off that someone less than half his age was giving him advice that he grabbed whatever was in his hand and grumpily headed off toward the register.

Suit yourselves! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
-DB

[snowbank]

I go out of my way to seem like a "WPT wanna be" type player. I bring the bling bling, I wanna be a poker player attitude. I goof around at the table with people. Even though I'm normally pretty goofy anyways, I step my goofiness up sometimes with people at the table, and they tend to loosen up their play a lot, and think I'm bluffing a lot more.

I have found myself in a similar situation in that older people think they know more than you do if you are a young kid. I'm 22, but probably look even younger. Sometimes a person at the table would be asking someone for advice, and I would try and help them out. They acted like I was some kid who had no idea what I was talking about. I don't talk strategy or anything else at the table anymore unless a person next to me knows what they are doing and they bring the strategy conversation up.

[Billy Baroo]

I agree with the sentiment of your post, but it cuts both ways. Just as many older players assume anyone in the room younger than 25 is a WPT wannabee, many young players assume that anyone with gray hair is a complete rock. Stereotyping players will cost you money whether you're young or old.

[rookieplus]

For me, it's got nothing to do with cards, EV or profit. It's simply a question of manners. Those of us who have to put up with the act (not the hat, the act) grow tired of playing in the nursery. We can separate the wackos from the decent players and the reality is that most of the Crew imitators are fish. You may be an exception to that rule but if you are, I would know fairly quickly.

Long term poker success is fleeting for all but a select few. Being a gentleman is a quality that will serve you for life.

Grow up.

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
Grow up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Manners? Wackos?

If you've already decided that I have bad manners or am a "wacko", then... well, I wouldn't want to get in the way of your assessment. I'm sorry, I guess. We'll meet at a card table someday.

-DB

[The Armchair]

I think your comments are misguided. Yes, when you have people pretending to be Scott Fischman et al, it's annoying, and marginally rude. But you're overestimating the real problem -- the obnoxious middle-agers. They are typically fish who think the youngers are invading their game; that is, they are not trying to determine if the kids are WPT-wannabees in order to figure out how good the kids are, but rather, assume the kids are WPT-wannabees for the sake of establishing some sort of moral high-ground.

I'm a mid-20s professional. I'm clean-cut, borderline preppy (if I were still 16), married, etc. -- an adult by any definition. And no, I don't wear baseball caps (backward or otherwise), sunglasses, etc.

Without fail, I get treated like a WPT wannabee:
* At Foxwoods, I have KQ on a KQ22x board against a guy who I am pretty sure has AA. He says something like "lemme check my hand" but I just hear him say check and hit the table. (I was in seat 8, he was in seat 3.) I ask him if that was a check and he and his buddies think I'm angle-shooting or something. He was wearing sunglasses (and a dorky visor).
* Same game, I have QJs and flop top pair Q-kicker. RHO bets. I say "raise emphatically but politely and toss in my $8. Some dude cold-calls and says something like "this isn't television poker, kid, you can't push me out that easy," bad grammar and all.
* 3/6 at the Taj, in CO w/97s, six-way pot (including big blind) flop K86 w/two to my suit. Someone early opens and there are a lot of callers, so I naturally raise. I spike the straight on the turn, it's checked to me, I bet, and am called down by two people with Kings -- one who made two pair (KJ maybe?) on the river. He sees 97s and goes table-coach on me: "who plays that junk?" and "you think you were being all professional by raising the flop with nothing?" Then someone else, in a mocking tone, goes "but they were sooooooooooted" -- as if I just played with J2s.

The only explanation for this is some sort of weird threatening feeling, and it had nothing to do w/my play (as I played badly in both of those sessions). It's about the masses looking down on the invasion of the younger players.

[tek]

It's mistake to stereotype based on clothing or looks in general. A few hands will let you know whom is a fish and whom is a shark.

I've read a study that determined most people are unable to raise what turns out to be a wrong first impression but it's very easy to lower an opinion of them.

It's best to consider every player you have not previously played against as "above average" until they prove otherwise.

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
It's best to consider every player you have not previously played against as "above average" until they prove otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is completely wrong.

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
It's best to consider every player you have not previously played against as "above average" until they prove otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's best to consider them all "average", and allow yourself to factor all of your opponents' actions as a piece of the puzzle.

"Most people" are unable to raise a first impression, but I don't strive to be "most people". [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-DB

[bunky9590]

[ QUOTE ]
This is completely wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right on Evan!

I assume they are stone cold morons until proven otherwise.
Rarely do I have to change my mind.