Standard?

[Big Folder]

Just re-read miller and realized that I was missing moves like this. Is this a standard play or should I change something? I figured I had 5 outs to improve to 2-pair or better, backdoor flush and straight, so 8 outs total.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG folds, MP1 calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls, MP1 calls.

River: (18.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, BB folds, MP1 calls, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 21.50 BB

[Shillx]

Your hand on the flop is worth 5-6 outs IMO. I'm not totally convinced that your hand will be good if you hit an ace or a ten. If you hit an ace, it will give a redraw to anyone with a K or Q. The backdoor straight draw isn't worth much since you need perfect-perfect.

Fold the flop.

Brad

[JDErickson]

YOu will save yourself some grief by no playing this hand PF like you did. ATo is either raise or fold hand. I only raise it if 1 or maybe 2 weak limpers. The last thing you want is a multiway pot with ATo.

I am folding this on the flop after all the action.

[Big Folder]

Question about Aqo-A10o in that position with lots of limpers. A buddy made a suggestion that if you are in late position and have enough limpers that a raise with a hand like Aqo isn't profitable since you are giving pot odds to people that they can profitably chase and that the preflop advantage of raising AQ in that position doesn't make up for the lost postflop expectation. Does he have a good point and also are weaker hands like AJ-A10 an autofold in late position with lots of limpers?

[bennyk]

I feel that there is a big difference between AQ, AJ, and AT, and they should not be lumped together.

Against a few weak limpers, I raise AQ and AJ very often from LP, to get the button / blinds. Against many weak limpers, I will limp with AT (sometimes fold) and AJ because I will often have the best Ace. Not raising AQ is giving up a lot PF.

Just my thoughts,
bk

[JDErickson]

[ QUOTE ]
Question about Aqo-A10o in that position with lots of limpers. A buddy made a suggestion that if you are in late position and have enough limpers that a raise with a hand like Aqo isn't profitable since you are giving pot odds to people that they can profitably chase and that the preflop advantage of raising AQ in that position doesn't make up for the lost postflop expectation. Does he have a good point and also are weaker hands like AJ-A10 an autofold in late position with lots of limpers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Let them chase. There is a good chance you will have the best hand agsint weak limpers. Remember you make money from your opponents chasing their 5 outers or less.

AQo is an auto raise for me agaisnt any amount of limpers in any position.

AJo is tricky. I almost always raise it agsint any amount of limpers. Calling is bad. I usually won't raise AJo in the blinds though unless it only 1 or 2 weak limpers. I will limp with AJo in the SB.

ATo is an auto fold unless agsint 1 or 2 limpers than its a raise. Sometimes I will limp ATo in the SB.

[Vern]

I think raising PF is better than calling, buy the button, try to knock out the blinds and punish limpers with speculative hands.

Flop, it is 2 to you with 10 in the pot, you are getting 5:1 to call. You may be ahead, but unlikely. When behind, you have 1.5 outs for the Aces and 2 outs for the Tens. Backdoor flush is only worth 1 because it is a one card flush (You won't get much action on a four flush board) so I count your outs when behind as 4.5, you have nowhere near the odds to call this especially with players behind you left to act including the original flop raiser. I fold the flop.

Since you stayed in, the rest of the hand was ok.

Vern

Standard Disclaimer, I am by no means an expert at any of this.

[Gravy (Gravy Smoothie)]

I would fold this preflop. If you had AJ or better I would raise preflop.

The difference between AT and AJ, and between AJ and AQ, is huge. Each time you bump the kicker up one, it is more likely that if you flop a pair with the lower of your two cards, it will be top pair (ie. AQ is much more likely to get a Qxx flop than AT getting a Txx flop, where the x's are lower than the Q or T). Also, AQ is more likely to have other Aces dominated, where AT oftentimes IS dominated.

[RawPalm]

Having had ace ten and ace jack offsuit quite a bit the last few days, i'm wondering if there is any point in raising when there's a lot of limpers, since my experience in the micro's have been that alot of players will call two cold with the same crap as they would limp with, and i see very few people fold preflop when they've already put money in, so is a raise just a value bet, or do i not know at all what i'm talking about (most likely)

[Gravy (Gravy Smoothie)]

You came to the right conclusion. While AT is a fold after a bunch of limpers, AJ and AQ are value raises - you might not get many people to fold, but you have a pot equity edge preflop that you should push.