Flop is 773 and you have 45

[Schizo]

Barry Tanenbaum strategy analysis.

He says you bet this. Does this mean you bet it if it's 2 suited as well? I assume you fold if raised. If called do you bet the turn? How many people can you generally semi-bluff into with a flop like this?

[mordecaibrown]

You are praying for four outs. Do you bet?
I tend to check fold this hand more than anything else. True-it's not a player friendly flop.
If the players who are acting in the hand aren't calling stations I may throw a bet at the pot around 25% of the time.

This play seems like a long term loser---you get called/raised with overs or the goods. I wouldn't play with more than two other players.
I think it's best to run from this one most of the time.
This is one of those traditional has to be the perfect situation hands.
What do you vets think?M.

[Dawdy]

Hes saying (with his bet) that he holds a 7 or a v. big over pair but infact he does hold a str8 draw... which is the best draw out there. Unless ofcourse there are 2 to a suit in which case I think betting is alot more debatable.
The q. is what do all the other players hold. In an unraised pot betting on a flop like this is going to get you killed whereas if you are betting into a thinned preflop field u are unlikely to find anyone in it with a 7 unless they have a pair which will happen so rarely your +EV. Infact most players play 'strong hands' so wont even have a pair at this point and so will throw them away..
your main worry is if anyone else has an overpair and then its down to the players. Is he good enough to fold? ok he has u beat but some people call when they think u have them beat anyway! which kills bluffers.
No risk, no reward. Bet into the pot.. see what happens, prolly take it down most of the time. Even if someone calls you'll hit your outs once in a while. Only thing is dont call a reraise then this should be a +EV play. Just dont bet the house on it.
Dawdy

[Marm]

The real question is, why do you have 45 in a hand that was raised preflop then?

[Dave H.]

My question exactly, which made me believe it HAD to be a suited 5,4 in late position or one of the blinds.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
Barry Tanenbaum strategy analysis.

He says you bet this. Does this mean you bet it if it's 2 suited as well? I assume you fold if raised. If called do you bet the turn? How many people can you generally semi-bluff into with a flop like this?

[/ QUOTE ]

In general (like 99.9% of the time), you'd only be playing a hand of 4,5 when you're in the BB and nobody has raised pre-flop. If the SB folded, you'd be the first to act. If I was facing one or two opponents, I'd definitely bet. The reason being that your opponents will think it is not inconceivable that the BB is holding the third 7. Aggressive opponents will ocassionally react to this kind of play by raising you (especially if they're on a flush draw), in which case I believe the correct play would be to fold.

Alternatively, you can check, wait for your opponent to bet and then re-raise. This gives the impression that you've got trips but were slowplaying them into a check-raise. This works well against weak-tight opponents, but you don't want to use it too often because the rest of the table will start to notice that you *always* reraise in these situations and won't give as much respect to your raises.

Your question of whether or not you should bet "if it is 2 suited as well?" is the wrong way to be thinking about this scenario. Don't think of a flop that is two-suited as being a bad thing. The weak players always give too much credence to the chance that their opponent is holding four-flushes if the board isn't rainbow. Even if your opponent had a suited hand to begin with, the odds of him having a four-flush after the flop are pretty small -- about 10.9% to be exact. And remember that the 10.9% applies *only* if your opponent had a suited hand to begin with. When you bet, your opponent will not only have to worry about you having trip 7's or a set (if you had PP 3's), but now will also have to contend with the possibility that you're on a flush draw. In many instances, if the turn is a third *low* card of the same suit, I might bet as well, because chances are my opponent will be putting me on the flush. If the card is a J or higher of that suit, I might not bet, as enough opponents will call if they've made a pair at the turn. That being said, chances are my opponent won't bet as he will be worried about being check-raised after my post-flop bet. If my opponent *does* bet, the jig is up and I'll almost always fold.

If your notes are good, and if you tend to try to find tables with weak opponents, this sort of play can be very +EV.

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
The real question is, why do you have 45 in a hand that was raised preflop then?

[/ QUOTE ]

To change it up!

If you're NEVER in a raised pot with an inferior hand, you're playing too predictably IMO.

-DB

[augie00]

The only reason to bet this is so you can take it down on the flop w/ no trouble. Your 4 outs are just a backup prayer.

I think a checkraise here is bad because a lot of bad players won't give you credit for the seven anyway, and you've wasted an extra bet. If they're going to fold to a checkraise, they're going to fold if you bet right out.

However, against good players, a checkraise isn't so bad. But I still think betting out is better.

[cpk]

Playing fundamentally inferior hands is not a good way to "change it up." Even 45s is a little light under any circumstances for the kind of games where these sorts of considerations are necessary. 45o is just plain stupid.

I can think of one exception: Restealing. Then 45s might be something worthwhile, because then you can win a good pot if you get caught and flop a monster.

Restealing is a terrifically advanced topic (usually not necessary below 30-60, though I've had to do it in 8-16 games before), and most people probably do this sort of thing too often. There's a thin line between restealing and simply playing loose-aggressive.

[cnfuzzd]

anyone with a seven has a ten-out draw to beat the hand you are drawing to.

peace

john nickle