2 hands... What would you do?

[k_squared]

How would you play this hand… (sorry for lack of precise notation this wasn’t from an online game)

These are two hands I thought about a lot after the game (I won’t tell you which player I was and what happened until later…)

You are in a short handed game on the big blind. 6 handed. The game has played aggressively pre-flop and post flop relatively weak (i.e. people checking, check calling rather than continuing the aggression).

Hand 1:
You have 6s 6h in the big blind. Everyone folds to the button who raises. The small blind raises, the big blind (you) calls the three bets, the button caps it. Everyone calls. (12 small bets total)

The flop comes Qd Js 2c. The player in first position (small blind) checks, the player in second position (big blind-you) checks, the player in last position (the button) bets. The small blind folds. How do you play: call, raise, or fold and why?


Same short handed game, same three players, same position for each player. How would you play this hand…

Hand 2:
You have Kh 10h on the button. Everyone folds to you, and you call. The small blind raises, the big blind calls the two bets, you call the raise. (6 small bets total)

The flop comes Ad Qh 2c. The player in first position (small blind) bets, the player in second position (big blind) calls, (8 bets in the pot), it is one bet to (the button-you) How do you play: call, raise, or fold and why? (also would it change your decision if the 10 was a diamond?)

[Nick C]

Hand 1: I would have folded my pocket sixes to the 3-bet preflop. But after I didn't do that, I would check-fold the flop. The pot's big, but it isn't big enough to chase my set, and I don't think the chances that I'm ahead against something like AK (which would have a lot of outs against me) make up for this. Plus, there is some possibility that I'm drawing nearly dead.

I like raising better than calling, but I don't think I'd do it, because I'm not sure the combined chances that Button has something like TT or 99 and will lay it down are good enough.

Hand 2: I raise this one preflop. But after I didn't do that, I would go ahead and call the flop bet with my gutshot and backdoor flush. I think raising is an option too, if there's a good chance it'll slow SB down and give me a free look at the river. But since SB raised preflop, I'm not sure how likely that is. I guess it's most likely if he has a pocket pair (and no set).

If my ten was a diamond, I would probably still call the flop bet. I don't have the immediate odds to chase my gutshot, but it's close, and I figure to make some money on the turn and river if I catch.

[ErrantNight]

in a game that gets passive postflop i think hand 1 is an easy fold, as you aren't gonna necessarily gonna make your money back when you hit your set (if you're being even more pessimistic, you could think you get capped here, hit your set, and STILL not get a lot of action postflop... although that seems like an unlikely bad circumstances). calling two cold here ain't that hot even if they're loose if they're not gonna pay you off pretty big when you hit.

if you were drinking, or something, and accidentally called, muck this on the flop first chance you get.

hand 2, i'd raise this preflop. say it's 3-bet, but bb calls, i'm definitely calling this flop, and i'd consider raising. folding is clearly wrong.

in this game, your raise is likely to cool off the betting and buy you a free turn card if you want it, which makes up for your lack of flop equity. and if you concentrate real hard and hit, you've got bets on the turn and river that will likely be called.

if the ten was a diamond i still probably raise this preflop, as i've got position and a decent chance at having the best hand. raised back to me i call. with three to the flop i might call one bet (from sb only), as i'll have a chance to raise the field on the turn if i spike, and they'll pay me off again on the river, but i'm definitely check/folding on the turn to a blank and i'm definitely folding if bb bets.

[k_squared]

How would you play this hand… (sorry for lack of precise notation this wasn’t from an online game)

These are two hands I thought about a lot after the game (I won’t tell you which player I was and what happened until later…)

You are in a short handed game on the big blind. 6 handed. The game has played aggressively pre-flop and post flop relatively weak (i.e. people checking, check calling rather than continuing the aggression).

Hand 1:
You have 6s 6h in the big blind. Everyone folds to the button who raises. The small blind raises, the big blind (you) calls the three bets, the button caps it. Everyone calls. (12 small bets total)

The flop comes Qd Js 2c. The player in first position (small blind) checks, the player in second position (big blind) checks, the player in last position (the button) bets. The small blind folds. How do you play: call, raise, or fold and why?

WHAT HAPPENED
Turn comes 6d, you check, button raises, you reraise, button thinks and says “that six couldn’t of helped you that much!” reraises, you cap, he calls. River comes 4s Bet the river, called by the button who has Q-J and was very wrong! The six helped a lot... (I was the button and in a display of poor etiquette (it is a small group of friends playing) asked why he stayed on the flop, and he said because the turn card was cheap and the pot was big. I disagreed saying it was big, but both you could have been drawing dead (based on the play pre-flop) and that it was ‘cheap’ but not cheap enough for a two outer that wasn’t even to the nuts. My opinion is you should either raise or fold in this position. Raise to try to scare off the button from a potential steal, but inducing a fold with two premium cards on the flop is an unlikely scenario given the betting pre-flop, but certainly a better play than calling… I wanted to see what some unbiased people would say about the hand.

Same short handed game, same three players, same position for each player. How would you play this hand…

Hand 2:
You have Kh 10h on the button. Everyone folds to you, and you call. The small blind raises, the big blind calls the two bets, you call the raise. (6 small bets total)

The flop comes Ad Qh 2c. The player in first position (small blind) bets, the player in second position (big blind) calls, (8 bets in the pot) How do you play: call, raise, or fold and why? (also would it change your decision if the 10 was a diamond?)

WHAT HAPPENED
The turn came the Jc. Player in first position bet and the player in the big blind folded (I put him on a pocket pair… or another inside draw… he was the one who stayed with 66 earlier). The button raises (with the straight) the player in first position calls. The player in first position then check calls the river. The player in the small blind had A-9. Then the conversation comes back to the discussion before… why did you play your inside draw? You didn’t have the right pot-odds. To which I replied, it was a very different scenario. I was drawing to the nuts, and I had a lot less ground to make up with two other people still in the pot when I called to see the turn card. I had eight bets already and need implied odds of 11-1 (need to make 3 more small bets). So, I had good enough implied odds, especially with two opponents, to make up the 3 small bets if I hit on the turn. I had the K-10, and my friend couldn’t see the difference in these 2 situations. In both the odds weren’t there.

As far as I see it there are three major differences (1) the 6’s weren’t drawing to the nuts and could easily have been redrawn to even if they made the best hand (lots of high card straights) (2) the ground that had to be made up in terms of the number of bets was MUCH smaller in the hand with K-10. In hand one you need to be confident that you can make an average of 22 small bets when you hit your six. Which means that each time you hit your six you would collect another 9 small bets from your opponents, this is much harder than collecting another 3 small bets…

Thanks for the input. It is such a great help being able to talk about these hands with some unbiased players.

-k_squared