Party 2/4, QQ, king flops, bet and called before it gets to me

[PantherZ]

These types of situations always give me a headache. UTG is slightly LA preflop, aggressive postflop, MP1 is an unknown player in his first orbit, SB seems decent after a few hands, BB is a solid TA player.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: PantherZ is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">PantherZ raises</font>, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP1 calls, PantherZ???

Bet and called with two players behind me who checked. What's the best line here? Call, raise or fold?

[bigandblind]

Fold.

You don't have to win every pot.

Bet and called ahead. Plus with the raising before the flop.

You are not a favorite IMO

[Wally]

I agree, fold. Same reasoning as above.

[PantherZ]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree, fold. Same reasoning as above.

[/ QUOTE ]

I could have the best hand, although it's pretty doubtful. At the time, I was trying to calculate my outs, and they didn't look too great. A backdoor straight draw, and I'm not positive that my two queen outs are clean.

Still, folding here could be seen as overly weak/tight. I just don't know. Folding might be best. Calling might be worse than raising. If I raise, I might knock out some players and get a free card on the turn.

[bigandblind]

I think that it is good that you are thinking of raising to knock people out but....

These people already called a preflop raise and then have placed bets on the flop seeing KJx.

I just think that at least one of these guys has a King often enough to make it a poor play to reraise.

as for calling, I think that you are ignoring the handwriting on the wall.

This situation is exactly why Pocket pairs are tough to play. (YOU HONESTLY FELT ENTITLED TO THAT POT)

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
Folding might be best. Calling might be worse than raising. If I raise, I might knock out some players and get a free card on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I think folding is best, followed by raising, and finally calling. I wouldn't want to take the free card in your spot, though, as there are far more cards that could help your opponents than you, and as you said, even your two queen outs may be counterfieted.

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet and called with two players behind me who checked. What's the best line here? Call, raise or fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

You can fold. Although your immeadiate odds are 11-1 this is a situation where you have horrible reverse implied odds. Your hand has very little chance to improve, and even if it is currenty best its extremely vulnerable on that board. Its the combination of often being behind and often being outdrawn that sinks your hand.

Stu

[Grease]

There's a two flush, and people very interested in their hands. You have no room to improve, and other likely have a ton of outs if you by some miracle are ahead. I just don't see how continuing can be profitable. Toss it.

[Brash620]

[ QUOTE ]
I could have the best hand, although it's pretty doubtful. At the time, I was trying to calculate my outs, and they didn't look too great.


[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds like a valid reason to fold.

[PantherZ]

I folded on the flop.

UTG and MP1 ended up chopping the pot with AJo.

I think that I was being results oriented in my original thinking, and although I would have won this pot, the responses to this thread have convinced me that folding is the best EV play.