thoroughly outplayed :(

schwza · #1 12-09-2004, 06:05 PM

this is played in a homegame that i'm new to, but most of the players are very good - leagues above the average party NL200 crowd.

the game recently shifted from two tables to one, and it looks like i was on the tight (or "sober") table, and the other one has some maniacs.

villain has been acting like a maniac, although some of that was against another maniac who was clearly horrible. villain very frequently raised and 3bet preflop (once showing down a 72o gem that he 3bet) and put in a lot of money after the flop. he didn't seem to be totally clueless, but he had ~900 in front and was still a little down for the night (200 buy-ins). ok, enough foreplay...

table is 7 handed. i have 160, having just doubled up off villain with QQ after i raised pre-flop and he set me all-in (a smallish raise) with 66.

villain (utg) straddles for 4. utg+1 folds and i raise to 16 with a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. folded to villain who calls.

flop (2 players, $32) K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

he checks, i check.

turn (2, 32) 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
)

he checks, i check

river (2,32): A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]))

he checks, i bet 24, he goes all-in. i have 120 remaining, and the pot is 80 (including his call but not his raise).

i figure, "there's a good chance he'd do this with no hand at all" and call. he has a flush.

in retrospect, i was pretty dumb to call that bet. he knew (or should have) that i had screwed down and would not be splashing around with 67s-type hands and would likely have a big pair or decent ace. when i checked the flop and turn it became pretty unlikely that i had a pair. so when the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] hits, he can feel safe going for a check-raise, and he can think there's a chance i'll call. which i did. blech...

i will say this though... i'm learning a lot from playing good players live.

mak1277 · #2 12-09-2004, 06:12 PM

You say he was a maniac, but would he have called a bet on the flop from you without a hand? You didn't mention if he had any kind of hand other than the flush (i.e. did he have a pair on the flop, or did he just hit runner runner?). Depending on what I know about the opponent, I'm going to fire out at this pot on the flop almost 100% of the time if he checks it to me.

Scorpion · #3 12-09-2004, 06:13 PM

Agree with above. You raised preflop, throw the chips out on the flop. If called the hand is easy after that.

Tilt · #4 12-09-2004, 06:22 PM

He pulled a Wayfare on you! Overbet the pot on the river with the nuts.

Here's the problem, if he is a really good player: Now that you learned your lesson the next time he does it he will have nothing.

But...you may be set up to pull a big river bluff out on him because he regards you as a straight shooter.

damn_river · #5 12-09-2004, 06:47 PM

as you have said, to call an all-in on the river like that is the wrong thing to do. wasn't it unorthadox for this player not to bet into flush draw on the turn? he had you set up with an ace of spade on the river, and only an ace of spade.

damn river

schwza · #6 12-10-2004, 11:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You say he was a maniac, but would he have called a bet on the flop from you without a hand? You didn't mention if he had any kind of hand other than the flush (i.e. did he have a pair on the flop, or did he just hit runner runner?). Depending on what I know about the opponent, I'm going to fire out at this pot on the flop almost 100% of the time if he checks it to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not sure, but i thought it was likely that he would call me with a wide range of hands, including stuff like a gutshot, and that he would likely show aggression at some point later, especially if i checked the turn.

i didn't want to put a lot of chips into the pot on a bluff. my plan was to check it down all the way until that @#$@# As hit on the end.

schwza · #7 12-10-2004, 11:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Agree with above. You raised preflop, throw the chips out on the flop. If called the hand is easy after that.

[/ QUOTE ]

as noted above, the hand would be anything but easy. he is definitely NOT the predictable weak-tight party player that i'm used to, who will check-call a decent king or OESD but will check-fold anything else. betting the flop and getting called would tell me that my opponent has two cards.

schwza · #8 12-10-2004, 11:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
as you have said, to call an all-in on the river like that is the wrong thing to do. wasn't it unorthadox for this player not to bet into flush draw on the turn? he had you set up with an ace of spade on the river, and only an ace of spade.

damn river

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, part of my thought process was that he likely would have bet the turn with a spade draw. apparently i was mistaken.

BK_ · #9 12-10-2004, 11:49 AM

yea. auto betting missed king high flops will get you in alot of trouble vs decent to good players.

if i thought a bluff raise was coming enough of the time, i probably wouldnt even bet the river. i like that line more than betting the river then calling a raise. techincally the bet/call line is better vs a guy that will make this move alot, but it requires a very accurate hand read. but since im not convinced this guy will bluff raise on this board, i would instead choose to bet the river smallish then fold to a raise. interesting river decision. small changes in range of hands can make all 3 hands possible