TT on the button

slavic · #1 12-08-2004, 07:21 PM

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed)

Both players were very aggressive the SB had a tendency to be passive postflop, the BB tries to be tricky.

Preflop: slavic is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
7 folds, slavic raises, SB (Laggy2) 3-bets, BB (Laggy1) calls, slavic caps, SB (Laggy2) calls, BB (Laggy1) calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Laggy2 checks, Laggy1 checks, slavic bets, Laggy2 calls, Laggy1 calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Laggy2 checks, Laggy1 checks, slavic bets, Laggy2 folds, Laggy1 calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Laggy1 bets, slavic raises

kidpoker22 · #2 12-08-2004, 09:20 PM

I dunno' why you capped. I think you played the hand way too fast...just becuase someone is agressive it doesn't mean they can't sometimes beat TT

Stork · #3 12-08-2004, 09:50 PM

I don't understand why you'd raise the river here.

bobbyi · #4 12-08-2004, 10:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno' why you capped.

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you notice that he is on the button? A raise here is supposed to be a steal. The small blind will (and should) three-bet with a wide range of hands, including many that slavic dominates here. He's ahead way more often than he's behind. And there's the big blind in there, whom we have no reason to believe has much since he is a very aggressive player and chose to just call. Going to four bets caps the betting and each player will call for one more, so we get in two more small bets when we have position and are ahead the overwhelming majority of the time. Barring specific player knowledge, playing this any other way preflop would be just wrong.

Turning Stone Pro · #5 12-08-2004, 10:09 PM

what a shock.

TSP

roy_miami · #6 12-08-2004, 10:12 PM

Yeah, is that river raise for value or a bluff? Either way I don't like it.

bobbyi · #7 12-08-2004, 10:36 PM

I would seriously consider checking behind on the turn. With the ace hitting and two overcards now on board, you aren't ahead so frequently against two opponents that you are giving up much by checking. Free cards aren't terribly dangerous if you are ahead. The only overcards left are the king and queen, but the clubs complete the flush, so someone with a single king only has two overcard outs (or they have the K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and aren't folding anyway). Similarly, anyone with a drawing pair like 78 probably has one or two of their outs killed by your flush draw. So you can afford the free card when you're ahead. When you're behind, you will always be check-raised. A tricky player (BB) who has so far done nothing but check and call is unlikely to check-call again. He may fold (which is fine), but in a pot this size, you are usually going to get raised, especially since he is "very aggressive" and since tricky players love to check-raise when a scare card hits (even when their play so far is not consistent with what they are representing by raising the scare card), and an ace that also completes a flopped flush is fairly the epitome of a scare card. You are almost always going to get raised here, and too much of that time you will be behind. And since the aggressive player is the second one to act, his raise doesn't even help protect you when you are ahead by facing SB with two cold.

I would also give a little respect to the preflop action and worry that this ace may is particularly likely to have hit SB (or he may have you beat in some other way).

The only hands folding are ones you don't want out. If you check behind, you'll make it up on the river either by getting action from a smaller flush if a fourth club hits or (more likley) by inducing some bluffing from the very aggressive BB.

Given that you chose to play it this way, I really like the river raise against this sort of opponent. You're ahead way more often than you're behind given the way the hand played out and will often get payed off. If he's bluffing, he'll fold and you aren't forced to show, which is a fine outcome as well.

amulet · #8 12-08-2004, 11:33 PM

there are several places that i think you could have played it differently.

preflop: why cap? yes tt is a strong hand, but you have 2 opponents, who even given what you say about them can have a hand. plus overcards are more the 50% likely on the flop, vs 2 opponents i don't like capping.

the turn: playing an A in the blinds vs a late position raiser is common. if i had kk here, i would pause (probably bet, but think twice). with tt there are two overcards on the board, and 2 opponents who might have real hands (given the preflop action). even if they did not start with premium hands with an A and a Q on the board i can not like your hand very much. why bet? try to check it down, you might be reraised, you will probably be called by one of them with an A.

the river: why bet? if you are beat, you will likely be raised, if there is no higher spade they will fold. this is a clasic call it down. you have little to gain, and much to loose.

i think you were too aggressive, which seems to be the normal at 2 + 2. tight aggressive play is correct, but not in the face of real trouble. calling can be correct/

slavic · #9 12-09-2004, 01:50 AM

what a shock

Are you trying to make a point here or is this your typical drivel?

slavic · #10 12-09-2004, 02:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, is that river raise for value or a bluff? Either way I don't like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Roy-

In this case value, I've seen him be a bit tricky on the end several times. I'm interested in hearing why you don't like the raise though. I'm certainly not sold on it and I think it's one of those points that needs a little pondering. Along with betting the turn and capping the flop. If someone really wanted to press it they could say I botched the whole darn hand.

Thanks,
slavic