Examples Of Value Bets In NL SNGs

Desdia72 · #1 12-04-2004, 03:50 PM

i've been reading some of the threads in the Mid-, High-Stakes Limit Holdem Forum where they talk about value bets in a ring game setting. what would be some examples of value bets in NL SNGs?

Irieguy · #2 12-04-2004, 04:15 PM

Level 1, you open-limp with 88 and everybody folds behind you. Blinds call and the flop comes 9-4-3.

The pot is 45, it's checked to you, and you bet 30 chips. You believe you have the best hand, so you bet an appropriate amount. That's a value bet.

Irieguy

captZEEbo1 · #3 12-04-2004, 04:34 PM

That's not what I thought it was. I thought it was basically a bet designed to get a call. Ie. you have the best hand on the river, you are last to act. What is the maximum VALUE you can get on your BET? You make a value bet of 150, because you put your opponent on a certain hand and think that is the most he could call with it.

I might be wrong though...

pshreck · #4 12-04-2004, 04:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Level 1, you open-limp with 88 and everybody folds behind you. Blinds call and the flop comes 9-4-3.

The pot is 45, it's checked to you, and you bet 30 chips. You believe you have the best hand, so you bet an appropriate amount. That's a value bet.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty sure this isn't a value bet. It's when you are betting on the river with something like the nuts or when you are sure you have the best hand, and you know your opponent can't call much, so you bet low, for a value call (i.e. he has over 10 to 1 odds to call with a mid pair or something, he will have to call it).

Irieguy · #5 12-04-2004, 04:45 PM

I learned this concept from Bob Ciaffone's books. I think he describes it the best.

When you bet, you usually hope that your opponent either calls or folds. You hope they fold when you bluff, and you hope they call when you have a great hand. But sometimes you're not sure what you want. You think your hand is the best, but you're not sure. So checking would be too weak, even though you may have to fold if raised. This is where value-betting come into play. You are betting based solely on the value of your hand... nothing else.

Irieguy

Irieguy · #6 12-04-2004, 04:56 PM

Well, I'm pretty sure Bob Ciaffone "coined" the term. He may have borrowed it from somebody, but he was the first to use the phrase in a book as far as I know.

When I was living in Michigan, I used to play at the now defunct Soaring Eagle poker room. Bob C. was also living in Michigan at the time and I saw him there occassionally. I was playing in a holdem game with him after a tournament there. A hand came up playing from the blinds where I made top pair-weak kicker on the turn and checked to Bob. He checked behind. On the river I bet and he raised. I folded and he showed me two small pair. I said "I had top pair, but knew I was beat." and he said "if you just value-bet that on the turn, I fold."

I didn't know what he meant at the time, so I just nodded and said hmmm. Now I know what it means.

Irieguy

Paragon · #7 12-04-2004, 05:11 PM

When I see the term value bet used, it's usually in the context that captZEEbo described. Certain situations like the one described with 88 don't seem like value bets to me, although maybe they are and my intuition is wrong... In that example, you want people to fold to your bet because 88 is vulnerable in my opinion. My impression of value betting is when you want to maximize your bet so as to still get a call because you are confident your hand is good (and will stay that way).

eastbay · #8 12-04-2004, 05:14 PM

I think this is slightly different than the way SM use the word in their books. I think their definition is simply betting when you expect you have the best hand. "Value" as in extracting value from your superior hand.

eastbay

Irieguy · #9 12-04-2004, 05:18 PM

Value bet: a bet that has a positive expectation if called.

pshreck · #10 12-04-2004, 05:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Value bet: a bet that has a positive expectation if called.

[/ QUOTE ]

Under that definition, just about every bet that isn't a pure bluff would be a value bet.

I don't think anyone is really wrong with the definition, I think that over time a lot of people started associating it with bets on the river that are made in which your opponent has to call, even though he is clearly behind.

I think the original poster was inquiring about this kind of bet, not the original kind that Irie was talking about.