QUEEN-QUEEN Offsuit

nepenthe · #1 12-03-2004, 08:53 PM

Everyone at the table seems quite typical. Not too maniacal and somewhat loose, they will push draws as well as strong hands alike and stay in too long with the worst of it. As usual, I took a slightly different approach from the usual.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, Hero raises, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero calls, CO raises, SB calls, BB calls, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, SB calls, BB folds.

River: (13 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets...

What do you think of the flop line?

MarkD · #2 12-03-2004, 08:56 PM

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What do you think of the flop line?

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What was your reasoning behind just smooth calling the initial bet?

nepenthe · #3 12-03-2004, 09:35 PM

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What was your reasoning behind just smooth calling the initial bet?

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A risky experimentation knowing full well I'm running a fair risk of losing the pot.

The T.A. · #4 12-03-2004, 10:40 PM

With straight and flush draws a plenty, this is a VERY risky experiment.

I'd just stick with a raise.

AngryCola · #5 12-03-2004, 10:48 PM

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this is a VERY risky experiment

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I don't know that its all that risky.

Isn't this one of those situations when you should wait until the turn to raise, ala SSHE? Your 3 bet caused you to be able to charge only one BB on the turn.

Btw, I didn't realize pocket queens could be anything but offsuit.

The T.A. · #6 12-03-2004, 11:02 PM

If raising on the flop would eliminate the CO, I'd definitely raise.

EliteNinja · #7 12-03-2004, 11:04 PM

Raise the flop, easy decision.

Harv72b · #8 12-03-2004, 11:09 PM

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If raising on the flop would eliminate the CO, I'd definitely raise.

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5:1 odds that CO is the nut flush draw. He's not going anywhere with 4 players in a medium-sized pot.

I don't think a flop raise would really eliminate any hand that's a threat to the Hero here. Any ace can either call with two overcards or with a pair + TK (Obviously nobody had A3) & justify that with "implied odds", any OESD with the 3 is going to call 2 bets knowing that they're likely to get a lot of action if an A comes up, and nobody with a flush draw is going to fold this pot on the flop. They can all happily convince themselves that Hero is holding nothing but an AKo & that they aren't likely to be behind another made hand at this point.

I think that waiting for the turn to raise is the better move in this case--at least you can (hopefully) knock out the straight draws that way. Or save yourself a bet if the 3 comes on the turn.

AngryCola · #9 12-03-2004, 11:17 PM

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He's not going anywhere with 4 players in a medium-sized pot.

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Exactly. His turn call suggests to me that he was most likely going to stay in the hand for a flop raise.

The T.A. · #10 12-03-2004, 11:17 PM

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If raising on the flop would eliminate the CO, I'd definitely raise.

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5:1 odds that CO is the nut flush draw. He's not going anywhere with 4 players in a medium-sized pot.

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Even easier decision, then. Just plain raise, and cap if necessarily.

An A, 3, or club will hurt you on the turn, but you have to raise with the best hand at this point. All the straight draws will fold to you of nobody improves and you bet on the turn, since you've shown strength on the flop.