Cards thrown face up in middle, live hand???

[ziggie]

here's the debate:

turn card out, player A bets, player B goes all in

player A throws cards face on top of board cards and didn't say anything... player B mucks cards and player A says that he is calling... player A's hand live or dead???

input greatly appreciated.

[D.J.]

As far as I know, if his hand touches the board cards, his hand is dead.

-D.J.

[Raydain]

An opponent can turn his cards face-up to test his opponents reaction. That doesn't mean he folds or calls, as long as he hasn't said anything yet.
Even in Super System Doyle advises to flip your cards over at the end if you have a tough decision.

Tell me if I'm wrong

[Louie Landale]

Card room "dead hand" rules apply. Most say a discarded hand that touches the muck is dead. Other's say a discarded hand that the dealer touches is dead. Don't know about covering the board. But if I'm the floor this hand is dead since its CLEARLY a fold.

Don't let go of you hand until you have the pot.

- Louie

[bigfishead]

Louie Landale was pretty complete in normal policys. Leaving open the obvious debate on cards hitting the flop face up. 98% of the time the player is mucking when this happens. This time however the dealer didnt get the cards into the muck prior to the opponent folding thus allowing the "cards face-up" player to take a "shot". As thats exactly what this is. "Shot taking".

I wont blame the dealer either. This probably happened to fast for him/her to stop from happening.

When the floor is called in this spot, oldtimers with ethics will often say push the pot to the bettor/folder and warn the "face up" player to turn his cards face up directly in front of him and state his actions. Thus warning him about taking shots without stating "your busted, caught with hand in the cookie jar, stealing and taking shots".

Whereas some newer type floorpersons may in fact go letter of the law and allow the call. Disregarding the obvious intents. Unfortunately there are fewer and fewer with the experience to understand the consquences of "card room behavior" which this is in fact just a small example of.

And if the "face up" player is in fact a newby player, and did in fact intend to call, they need to learn right away what is proper and what isnt. Small price paid. push the current pot to the bettor.

[riverboatking]

there is a clear difference between turning your cards face up and throwing your cards toward the center of the table unto the flop.

his hand is dead.
if the floor makes a contrary ruling i pick up my chips and leave...even if i'm not in the hand.