Folding KK Preflop?

[aquifex harse]

Hi All,

Here's a hand from yesterday which had me thinking...
$500NL, 6 max, $2 and $5 Blinds. Table is full and quite loose/passive.

I pickup KK in MP, the action is folded to me ($1000) and I raise to $25. CO folds and Button ($250) reraises to $80. Now, I make the decision to put the guy all in when it's folded to me... However, the SB ($450) comes over the top and goes all-in! BB folds.

All this action is out of character for this game and I've not seen Button or SB get out of line thus far.

Does anyone fold KK here?

aquifex

[Ionphore]

[ QUOTE ]
I pickup KK in MP, the action is folded to me ($1000) and I raise to $25. CO folds and Button ($250) reraises to $80. Now, I make the decision to put the guy all in when it's folded to me... However, the SB ($450) comes over the top and goes all-in! BB folds.


[/ QUOTE ]

Did the SB call the 80? then you reraised to 250 to put the reraiser all in? If thats what happened you cannot fold KK for 200 more with almost 1000 in the pot. You had odds to call even if he has aces, which he probably only will 35%-60% of the time depending on the player.

Those percentages is just kind of a an educated estimate based on my 6max experience...

[aquifex harse]

Sorry, I should have made it clearer, the SB pushed in his whole stack - $450.

[GimmeDaWatch]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I pickup KK in MP, the action is folded to me ($1000) and I raise to $25. CO folds and Button ($250) reraises to $80. Now, I make the decision to put the guy all in when it's folded to me... However, the SB ($450) comes over the top and goes all-in! BB folds.


[/ QUOTE ]

Did the SB call the 80? then you reraised to 250 to put the reraiser all in? If thats what happened you cannot fold KK for 200 more with almost 1000 in the pot. You had odds to call even if he has aces, which he probably only will 35%-60% of the time depending on the player.

Those percentages is just kind of a an educated estimate based on my 6max experience...

[/ QUOTE ]

No, he's saying that he had planned on re-raising to $250 but before he could SB moved in for his $450, so its $425 to Hero if he wants to play. Of course, its player dependent, knowing nothing I'd probably fold but its close. I think alot of posters here will tell you to call, though.

[TomCollins]

I don't think SB plays AA this way. I think he tries to get a bit tricky here. Unless you know something I don't know about this guy, I put him on a real good hand, but not aces. Queens are possible here. I'm not that concerned about the Button as he is so low. I grit my teeth, call, and pray for a king on the flop.

[Loci]

Don't fold. It seems desperate to me. High smaller pair that wants to take A/K-J out of the picture and pick up what's already in there.

[Cornell Fiji]

A classic twoplustwo response:

"As is the case with many things in poker the answer here is, 'it depends' "

Read dependent what do you think that a 3 bet all in means here? Possible holdings in my oppinion are AA, KK, QQ, AK (rare possibility) Although you are obviously way ahead of all but aces here if your gut is telling you that you are against aces I have no problem with making this laydown.

I was actually presented with this identical situation about 4 months ago at the small stakes no limit table ($300 buy in although I had about 700 and villain about 300) I bet with KK, someone raised (with about 1k,) villain 3 bet it all in for 400. I 'knew' that the raiser had aces, it was an uncharacteristic play by him and in my gut I just knew. However, I went over the top anyway and the reraiser called.

We showed down AA, KK, and JJ, no one improved and I won a $600 sidepot for a slight loss in the hand.

If you have a good enough feeling hes got aces then muck here. If you cant get away from your hand... maybe you will win a sidepot with the other guy [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[schwza]

obviously, the question is whether SB would play AA this way. i probably wouldn't, as it's too easy for other guys (even button) to get away from their hands.

but i think a lot of players would. i would probably call and then regret it. i think the best play is to fold. it's possible SB has QQ, but i would very surprised to see him have anything that's not AA/KK/QQ.

[William Jockusch]

I think it's a fold. Not only could the SB have AA -- the button could as well.

Here is one way to look at it. Math says someone will be dealt AA one hand in 40. Well the SB just raised to 100 times the big blind! I think to justify that action, the SB would need to have that one in 40 hand.

Furthermore, looking at things from the SB's point of view, the button is strongly suggesting that he holds AA, KK, QQ, or AKs. That means that making the SB's play with any hand other than AA is awfully risky, as the cutoff obviously will not fold AA.

If you get bluffed out here, so be it.

[schwza]

but if the button has AA, you're not in bad shape. you play in a 750 (250 x 3) pot with ~18% equity and in a 400 pot (200 x 2) pot with ~80% equity (somewhat less if SB has AK instead of QQ/JJ). 18% * 750 + 80% * 4 = 455. if you call you have EV +5 for the hand and if you fold you have EV -15 or whatever your initial raise was.

but SB is much more likely to have AA and it's much worse if he does.