AJs gets away from me.

[Glintir]

I reviewed this hand after my elimination, and at first, I thought I played it poorly. Then I felt I didn't. Now I feel I did.

My reads on the villains aren't that hot. I haven't played with them before, and all I really know is they both play a bit loose. Eggo's PF call made me nervous, but not enough to drop my hand. What I can't decide is if I should have folded on the flop. Hindsight says yes, but I don't trust hindsight. Any comments?

Seat 1: Cassell ($960 in chips)
Seat 2: kickboy ($985 in chips)
Seat 3: MrPiazon ($2,715 in chips)
Seat 5: horn5150 ($1,805 in chips)
Seat 6: glintir [ J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ] ($2,110 in chips)
Seat 7: kickazzosx ($1,225 in chips)
Seat 8: auheld1 ($2,315 in chips)
Seat 9: wilson50 ($510 in chips)
Seat 10: LetgomyEggo ($2,375 in chips)

ANTES/BLINDS
wilson50 posts blind ($25), LetgomyEggo posts blind ($50).

PRE-FLOP
4 folds, glintir bets $150, 2 folds, wilson50 bets $485 and is all-in, LetgomyEggo calls $460, glintir calls $360.

FLOP [board cards 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ]
LetgomyEggo bets $1,865 and is all-in, glintir calls $1,600 and is all-in.

TURN [board cards 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ]


RIVER [board cards 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ]


SHOWDOWN
results in white
<font color="white">
LetgomyEggo shows [ AH,KH ]
glintir shows [ JD,AD ]
wilson50 shows [ 9C,AC ]
LetgomyEggo wins $265, LetgomyEggo wins $3,200, wilson50 wins $1,530.
</font>

[slickterp]

when someone goes all in, and another person calls them, AJ probably ain't gonna do it. fold PF

[rjb03]

I'd have folded preflop. You can't really bet for information so you have to rely on a read which you said you don't have.

[tigerite]

This is why you don't raise with a hand like AJs but with junk, because it's harder to put down than say J5off would be here. It's not a bad one to try to steal with but once you're played back at, unless you have them majorly covered and it's one all-in back to you, you've got to fold it preflop.

[tigerite]

Also it is risky to try to "steal" with small stacks still to act for this very reason - the odds almost cry out for a call.. but you have to lay it down.. they won't be playing back at you with junk. I had to lay down KJo in a similar situation in another tournament. He had JJ so I was bang on to do so.

[Glintir]

So if the short stack had gone all in, and the BB had folded. Would you have called it at that point?

I like the argument that he won't play back at me without something, but does that negate the strength of this hand? Do I want to be folding to 88 against someone i've got almost a 4 to 1 chip advantage over?

[rjb03]

[ QUOTE ]
So if the short stack had gone all in, and the BB had folded. Would you have called it at that point?

I like the argument that he won't play back at me without something, but does that negate the strength of this hand? Do I want to be folding to 88 against someone i've got almost a 4 to 1 chip advantage over?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not folding because the short stack pushed. You're folding because somebody cold called a raise and reraise all in.

[tigerite]

Yes - you call if you have them covered - you definitely don't have the big stack covered and you have to figure him for calling with "something" that's likely better than AJs.

Now if it was just the small stack and it was back to you, then this is an easy call.

[ChrisV]

Neither of these comments make any sense. That it's easier to fold AJs than J5o is true but irrelevant. Just fold when it's right. If you like you can pretend you have J5o and fold. The fact that you consider a call means that perhaps calling has greater equity than folding - which is a direct advantage over J5. With J5 you'll be in much worse shape when someone smooth calls.

As regards the riskiness of stealing across small stacks, the small stack wasn't the problem here, it was the large stack with the massive hand. The small stack was dominated and in dire straits. Once again, you can always pretend you're up against a big stack and fold. If you call it's because you have equity on the call. Just because a situation makes you uncomfortable doesn't automatically mean it's a bad situation for you.

[tigerite]

I simply mean from the point of view of the original poster, AJs looks a nice hand and so he's tempted to play it for the small re-raise back to him, whereas he wouldn't be with a junk hand. This is mentioned in TPFAP, even? I'm not saying he was wrong to raise with it here - I would have too - but after the big stack smooth calls the all-in I'm out of this hand like a flash.

As for if you are smooth called with J5, I don't think you're in such a bad shape - I just play it like a BB hand - and you can often hit ridiculous flops that they have no hope in hell of putting you on for having "hit".