Tough 5 handed choice. Or is it????

mart_ph · #1 11-28-2004, 12:03 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed) converter

UTG (t1430)
MP (t990)
Button (t2695)
SB (t1865)
Hero (t1020)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG raises to t400, 1 fold, Button calls t400, SB calls t300, Hero???.

Fold, call or push?

Desdia72 · #2 11-28-2004, 12:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed) converter

UTG (t1430)
MP (t990)
Button (t2695)
SB (t1865)
Hero (t1020)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG raises to t400, 1 fold, Button calls t400, SB calls t300, Hero???.

Fold, call or push?

[/ QUOTE ]

without having to ask how your players play, looking at the stack sizes, i say it's an easy fold. also, why would calling even be an option? you're calling off nearly half your stack with mostly a dominated hand preflop. why? let me put it another way.

-let's say the UTG raiser has A K and the flop hits a rainbow with a King then he goes all-in. that's gonna put you in a bad spot, even if you don't know he has A K.

-you also have to consider the amount of callers in the hand also. one thing that i think that has helped me improve my game (even though i only play $5 + $.50 SNGs on Stars) is paying attention to who is raising, how much their raising (in relation to the blinds), how many other players have or will call the raise, and what my position (good or bad) would be it i called the raise. this has helped me release potentially damaging holdings such as A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

-i feel if you're gonna bleed off nearly half your stack on calling, you might as well push instead. the problem with pushing, however, (when you consider the other players who already called the raise) is one if not two of them probably have you beat. your all-in could get called by both UTG and/or the big stack. at that point, luck would need to be on your side.

Zelcious · #3 11-28-2004, 01:04 PM

He's on BB

tigerite · #4 11-28-2004, 01:09 PM

I would fold because:

1) MP will soon be hitting the blinds and be in desperation mode the next hand.

2) Whoever loses this pot out of SB and UTG won't have many more chips than you, and both have the blinds to come.

3) You will have at least some fold equity for the next two hands, assuming UTG loses. If he doesn't then you will when MP and then later the current SB are in the blind.

4) Your hand, as correctly pointed out, could well be dominated with three other callers.

Having said all that, it is _very_ close. Between fold and push, that is. If you were a fair way behind the 3rd placed stack here, or they were out of the hand, I'd probably push

Desdia72 · #5 11-28-2004, 01:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He's on BB

[/ QUOTE ]

my bad, i don't recall seeing his position. i still don't like the idea of calling. you got two other callers in the hand, so that'll be four to the flop with most likely a dominated/marginal hand. as in my example with the rainbow flop with a King, this is likely a dead man's holding if another opponent has A K or K Q. it's gonna be hard for him not to burn off chips on a flop like this. with all the money in the pot, he would still inevitably lose half if not all of his stack with this hand.

mart_ph · #6 11-28-2004, 02:15 PM

Here's how it turned out. Still glad I folded though (ish!)

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed) converter

UTG (t1430)
MP (t990)
Button (t2695)
SB (t1865)
Hero (t1020)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG raises to t400, 1 fold, Button calls t400, SB calls t300, 1 fold.

Flop: (t1400) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Button bets t400, SB folds, UTG calls t400.

Turn: (t2200) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Button bets t200, UTG calls t200.

River: (t2600) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: t2600

Results in white below: 
UTG has As Qc (high card, ace).
Button has Qd Qs (one pair, queens).
Outcome: Button wins t2600.