Rock Bottom

[Dreamcatcher]

I can't believe in probability anymore. I just seem to get F'ed everytime I play. I guess everyone has been here. My current wonderful streak has lasted a month. I only play on the weekends (for the most part) and get in about 20 hours a week. I play mostly online. I was playing 5/10, but the tables were just too tight, so I moved up to 15/30 because my bankroll could afford it (so I thought). I have been doing nothing but breaking even for a month (I guess that's better than losing, but not much better). The last month, by the way, has been a combination of 5/10 and 15/30. I noticed no difference at either table (aside from the somewhat tighter 5/10 vs the somewhat looser 15/30). I have enclosed two hands for comments, but I'm mainly curious to understand how people deal with bad beats that last, seemingly, forever.
As my luck continues, the converter doesn't seem to be working so here goes:
I'm in the BB with KhKs, 10 players at 15/30, the table seems to be regular with some aggressive tendencies. No maniacs and no rocks (as far as I can tell). I see my hand and am elated until, UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, LP calls, button folds, SB calls, I call? - I'm not sure what a re-raise accomplishes here since UTG was the original raiser, and building a pot doesn't seem to make sense.
Flop is [ 4h, 6d, 7c ].
SB checks, I bet (I know c/r might be better, but I'm confused with what happened pre-flop, so with this flop and me betting my opponents should be nervous), UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 raises, LP folds, SB folds, I re-raise, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls. I'm actually semi-happy here, again, because the one player I have an OK read on is MP3. He is a little loose, but somewhat solid. He likes to see flops, but is solid after the flop(BTW, at this point I've put him on QQ). I'd never seen him play in a pfr pot.
Turn is 3h.
I bet, MP3 calls.
River is 3s.
I bet, MP3 raises (?), I call (?).

I'm sorry this post is getting long, but I'd like to squeeze one more hand in, if I can.
Same table with 8 players. Again I'm in the BB, this time with 9c Td. (BTW this is the same table as before with the same players)
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 raises, button calls, SB calls, I call (I feel like MP2's raise is a steal or a semi-steal).
Flop 2c, Qd, 8h.
SB checks, I check, MP2 (MP3 from above) checks, button checks (I feel pretty good about my hand here and think that I could take down the pot with a turn bet).
Turn 7c.
SB bets, I call, MP2 folds, button folds. (SB is as mysterious as me which is annoying, but I think the call is OK given I have position)
River 9h.
SB bets, I raise?

I appreciate any helpful insight. I know I'm not a great poker player, but I'd appreciate it if you'd be constructive rather than obnoxious. sorry for the long post, but I think more are sure to come.

[evanski]

never slowplay kings.

[Ian J]

Not 3 betting preflop in hand 1 is ridiculous. You 3 bet here for one reason.... VALUE. And no, check raising the flop is not best. You want UTG to raise your bet and face the field with 2 bets cold.

Hand 2 the preflop call is marginal. I don't see why you like your hand just because the flop was checked around. I think you're missing some fundamentals and should read Small Stakes Hold Em.

[bugstud]

II call? - I'm not sure what a re-raise accomplishes here since UTG was the original raiser, and building a pot doesn't seem to make sense.



So what are you gpong to build pots with?

[Schneids]

Nobody has said it so I guess I get to be the dick of the forums for a minute...

You are probably breaking even because you are not a very good player. You are probably very fortunate to have broken even the past month. You lack a lot of fundamental knowledge that winning poker players possess. This is easily apparent from reading your post.

I'm trying to be nice telling you this, it is for your own benefit.

1) Not reraising KK PF in that spot is atrocious. It is costing you a lot of money in the long run.
2) Betting out on that flop is almost always going to be better in the Party 15 game.
3) Putting MP3 on exactly QQ is absurd.
4) If your table read in the T9 hand is that you think you can take the pot with a bet on the turn (ie you think SB would have bet on the flop with any pair) than you'd be much better off raising the SB's bet on the turn as it's much more likely you'll win the pot without a showdown this way (ie you are basing your raise on the suspicion SB is betting a flush draw or straight draw because you believe he'd bet the flop with a pair).
5) You claim to not have very good reads on the players yet you somehow believe you can steal the T9 pot with a turn bet. Do you see the contradiction?

P.S. It is possible to break even for a month at 20hrs/week and still be playing exceptionally good poker. FWIW.

Welcome to the forum I hope I didn't come off as too big of a jerk.

[Joseph Busti]

come on dude, MP raised, what else can he have other than QQ?

[tripdad]

Dreamcatcher,

i'm not a terrific player, either, but i must agree with Schneids here.

there are certain things one must have an understanding of in order to be even a margianally winning player. you have shown in your post that you clearly do not have the fundamental grasp of the nature of the game and what is needed to be successful.

i must say, however, that all the information you need is available should you really want to improve. and improvement is a never ending quest, as the game changes constantly. evryone makes mistakes, and there is no perfect player, only perfect plays.

good luck!

[mikelow]

Take a break and analyze. On hand two, a pair is a terrible thing to happen to a straight draw. Give that one up. As for hand one, I don't know.

Maybe you don't have a talent for the game, maybe you do. You need to really look at your play.

See ya in January.

[Deftoner]

I like the call from bb in hand 1. It disguises your hand and allows you to bet any non-ace flop and hopefully utg will make it 2 bets cold to the rest of the field.

Re-raising preflop tells the table you have aa/kk. It also puts more money into the pot giving your opponents correct odds to draw to nearly anything on the flop. calling gives you the best chance to win the pot imo. KK isn't good 6 way, you need to try and give yourself the best chance to win the pot and not worry about building a big pot multiway.

my 2cents=\

[lil feller]

Just calling PF w/ KK in a typical party 15 game is insane. You aren't raising for any other reason then for value, period. People in those games don't automatically assume you have AA or KK when you three bet, and if they do you aren't 3 betting enough.