When did i become weak tight again?

[tolbiny]

Background-
Last weekend i went on a real nice run of cards and was up 2300 playing 5/10 and 10/20 over 19 hours of poker. It was fun, but when i went back to play last night i found myself with the opposite problem of what i usually face when running goood. Usually i am more aggressive with that nice feeling of confidence, but i became almost paranoid with my good hands, overthinking against nonthinking opponents. An example hand.

Table is slightly tighter than normal, but still a good decently loose passive table. Two limpers to me with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in LMP, i limp, cutoff and button and the BB are all in as well.
Flop. 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Checked to the player to my right who bets, i call 1 folder (BB) all others call.
Turn T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
checked to my right agains who bets, i call Cutoff and Button call.

Bascially i fell into my old trap of not wanting anyone to put me on a hand/not wanting to drive out customers that i never even got a raise in with the Nut flush.

[dfscott]

I caught myself doing this exact same thing last night. I had been tearing up 1/2 with aggressive play and finally had built a BR large enough to move to 2/4. I suddenly got my scaredy pants on and played a hand almost the exact same way.

I posted something here a while back about running "too good," where you feel like you're just waiting for the inevitable downturn. It's like you know you're "due" for the downswing, because you've been running too good, too long. Of course, your bad streaks will come and they're completely irrespective of recent history -- sometimes it's just hard to convince yourself of that.

[ricdaman]

What's wrong with your play? If CO and Button put on a flush and fold, you don't make as much as you do if they call. Better to call than raise. You have a real good chance of winning, so why not slowplay. Get those extra bets!

Now, aside from the example you gave, if you are having a problem playing tight/passive, then it is probably because you are scared of losing. If this is the case, I would say don't play. There is another thread currently on this topic here.

[tolbiny]

"What's wrong with your play? If CO and Button put on a flush and fold, you don't make as much as you do if they call. Better to call than raise. You have a real good chance of winning, so why not slowplay. Get those extra bets!"

What's wrong with my play? If i raise and they both fold and the EP player folds the most i have cost myself is 2BB- if both of them would have called. That is the worst case scenario. The best case is that they both all 2 cold (they are loose passive remember) and the original better had a flush as well and makes it three bets. Looking at a +5BB-+10BB scenario best case. In reality it is somewhree inbetween, but raiseing is vastly superior as one coldcaller is a damn good thing.
Also there are plenty of [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]'s left to hit the river wich will kill my action.

[ricdaman]

Ok, I guess if the game is THAT passive then it is +EV to raise. I've just never found one where if a flush card comes on the turn, and someone raises, everybody calls (unless the person was a known bluffer).

In the games I play, you raise, push out 2 people, and the original better calls (4BB into the pot, 2BB by you). He then checks the river, you bet and he calls (6BB total on turn and river, 3 by you - 3BB win). On the other hand, if you just call and the other 2 call too, you get 4BB on the turn, 1 put in by you, and 8BB on the river, 2 put in by you - 6BB win (TWICE as much money). So, the games I play it is +EV to just call, but if you play in a No Fold'em game, then by all means raise.

Oh yeah... and let me know where you play... I want in on that game!

[Lmn55d]

I actually think you played that hand fine. There is an argument for raising the flop for a free card and to possibly clean up some of your ace outs (as well as for some value if 2+ people call the raise). On the turn, if you thought people would coldcall 2 then yea you should raise, but at a lot of tighter tables I like calling and collecting overcalls, and then possibly raising the river (or overcalling again).

[BarronVangorToth]

Nothing against this board, as I believe it overall the finest place for poker insight, and I likewise believe (and know, due to all sorts of records) that I have made a ton of money due to 2+2 and its writings, but...

A lot of what you read IS weak-tight advice. I should know, I'm by nature a weak-tight player and I'm constantly trying to push myself to be a more aggressive player. Granted, I think weak-tight will often be more profitable than loose-aggressive (especially against opponents who demonstrate half of a clue and aren't overly tight themselves) but I made quite a few dollars over the years being VERY weak-tight, but it's not the way to be overall.

But a lot of advice you get steers you in that direction.

On the flipside, there is some advice that I believe is FAR too aggressive, bordering on obscene. People will demonstrate how they played a hand and think it shows playing aggressively when it is just nuts.

There is a fine line in there, but you really just have to be certain to discard those things that will steer you towards weak-tight OR loose-aggressive or just overly-aggressive period.

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com

[tolbiny]

I have been thinking about this hand for most of the day now, and what really bugs me about it is this:
I didn't raise MOSTLY because i was affraid of being transparent, i hate when people read me well, and when you are running good its easy for people to read you as you always have good hands [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. SO this has me hating being read, and having opponents sigh, and say out loud "how highs your flush?" as they call. This shouldn't bother me, as long as they call (which they do). Weather i made the right play or not is irrelevent since i made it for the wrong reasons.

[Al Schoonmaker]

I agree.

He got two overcalls on the turn, and might have gotten more money on the river by slowplaying. We can't tell because he did not say what happened on the river.

Slowplaying a nut flush is NOT weak-tight.

Regards,

Al

[tolbiny]

The reason i slowplayed was.
Check out my Ohh crap JJ with a K on the flop post in SS for another example of how i was weak tight last night.