Commission Coach Hand # 5 Review

O Doyle Rules · #1 11-23-2004, 07:29 PM

Another KQs hand out of the BB. Special thanks to my coach as well. I really appreciate his effort and time he has put into my game so far. I also appreciate the confidence he still shows in my overall game given my horrible start at the 15/30 game.
Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button raises, SB folds, Hero calls, MP1 3-bets, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.66 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.33 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, Button bets, Hero calls, MP1 folds.

River: (8.33 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.33 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Kh Qh (two pair, kings and queens).
Button has Ah Jc (straight, ace high).
Outcome: Button wins 10.33 BB.

Monkeyslacks · #2 11-23-2004, 10:25 PM

How about some reads/stats on some of these players?

Anyhoo... Call pf is fine. Cr that flop. As you played it, I can't see getting away from your hand at any point here.

partygirluk · #3 11-23-2004, 10:38 PM

Why didn't you raise the flop?

vmacosta · #4 11-23-2004, 10:58 PM

I like a raise on the flop...otherwise, this is a typical crying call stuation (particularly after you've pumped the flop as I think you should have).

NabO · #5 11-23-2004, 11:33 PM

I hate so much that kind of river situations. We all check every hands except a Jx in the place of the button and e call out of position only because it seems to us that the button can bluff more then 1 out of 8 times...Then we probably need to bet more as the button with a no Jx cause we call for the odds out of position... you see what i mean...

vmacosta · #6 11-23-2004, 11:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I hate so much that kind of river situations. We all check every hands except a Jx in the place of the button and e call out of position only because it seems to us that the button can bluff more then 1 out of 8 times...Then we probably need to bet more as the button with a no Jx cause we call for the odds out of position... you see what i mean...

[/ QUOTE ]
No, but I think you're trying to make a good point...I just don't understand your wording...

NabO · #7 11-23-2004, 11:55 PM

Soz my english is bad...I check a lot of rivers when i'm last to act especially with a 1 "card straight board". I think the majority of us (average to good players) overestimate our chance of winning the pot as the bb ( on the river) when the button bets in this situation. But if the same majority calls too many rivers we just have to bet more when we are in late position without a straight but with any sort of a good hand. Skanslky have said it " you need 55% chance to be call by a hand you can beat to bet the river profitably".
I hope you can understand what i mean now.

johnnycakes · #8 11-24-2004, 01:24 AM

check-raise the flop. it's borderline fold/check-raise the turn. If you get check-raise the turn and get re-raised, fold.

O'Doyle's Coach · #9 11-24-2004, 11:36 AM

This is a tough hand.

pre-flop is same as hand #4, flat call is fine. but here we have a limp r/r, just make sure you notice when someone does this.

The time to lay this down would be on the flop without making a single bet. I would maybe contemplate that if both other players were very solid/tight aggressive. not otherwise.

I think check-calling the flop is one spot where you being passive is actually the correct play. You have top pair, good kicker with a gutshot redraw in the very possible scenario where you are already beat (albeit a shaky redraw). Its not a great flop for you as it likely hit one or both opponenets pretty good considering the pre-flop action. KQo (which you hand is now essentially as there are none of your suit on the board), doesnt like raised pots too much, and hates 3 bet pots as there are so many hands that dominate you - AK, AQ, AA, KK, QQ. The likelyhood of one of these 5 hands in a 3 bet pot I would say is pretty large, depending on who's doing the raising and three betting.

problem is, I cant see how you get away from this hand even if you lead or c/r the flop as the pot will get larger, giving you better odds on your gutshot, and really the only scare card is an A, or maybe an 8, giving any J a one card straight.

My instinct is to pump the flop, but I'm not sure that's best. I would probably rely pretty heavily on notes/reads in this hand, its hard to say what a good default line is.

The turn and river are well played. you are either way ahead or way behind. either way, putting in a raise has a terrible cost/benefit vs check/calling, as raising a bluff maybe nets you the same amount of money, but raising a made hand cost you 1-3 extra BB.

You can't lay this down either cause he will have AA or AK or KQ for the split enough times to make it a profitable call down given the pot size.

tough hand.
well played.