A dying game?

[MRBAA]

The Bellagio now spreads a few high stakes stud games one $1-5 and no $5-10. In other words, new players aren't playing stud there. Foxwoods, on the other hand, still has many 1-3, 1-5, 5-10 and 10-20 stud games, although the players in those games are noticeably older than those in hold'em games at comparable limits.

Similarly, online there are perhaps a dozen low limit stud games in any given evening on a big site like Party, and hundreds of low stakes hold'em games. So my question -- is stud dying out? Any chance for a come back?

[Chris Daddy Cool]

stud was big back in the day, but then again, so was 5-card draw. hold'em has basically dwarfed both of those games out of existence. ok ok, exaggeration, stud won't die out all together, but finding games might become increasingly more difficult because of the hold'em craze started by the WSOP and WPT. all the new players simply wanna play hold'em

on a side note, when i was in vegas a couple weeks ago, the stud games at bellagio looked great, but i'm not properely rolled to play that high (nor good enough in case i run into actual good players). which brings me to another point, new players would get crushed easier in stud than in hold'em.

[Nick_Foxx]

well i figure when the hold'em craze dies out, the new players who got into poker via hold'em (versus stud or draw like most people over 30 did) will either: a) go on to the next craze or b) move on to other poker games

now i have nothing against flop games (except hold'em which i feel is the most boring game of all the poker variants) and i play a good amount of omaha/8, pot limit omaha and the like (and i'll play courcheval if given the chance) but i'm hoping that a good amount of these new players move into stud or stud/8... even on this board, you see hold'em players saying they're bored of hold'em and want to try out other games

it's interesting to also see the occasional post about what game has the biggest edge for the skilled player -- u just know this is a frustrated hold'em player who's taken some "bad beats" looking to get into something with less variance

mike

[nate1729]

I hope it's not, but I fear the worst. When I play at Foxwoods (and granted, I've never played higher than 5/10,) I'm usually the youngest by about thirty years. The East Coast is supposed to be the stud capital of the world, and at the biggest card room on the East Coast stud now occupies about a quarter of the tables... they just added about a dozen new tables that are primarily 2/4 LHE.

At the very least, if the game is dying, it will do so very slowly; there are enough existing players, and at least some of the new hold'em players will eventually find their way to stud. No use worrying now, but in a couple decades I wouldn't be surprised to see it all but gone from the mainstream.

[Michael Emery]

In Atlantic City where I play live, stud is still the game of choice. Unfortunately, I believe that in another five years this might not even be true here on the East Coast. The bottom line is that in the future there will always be a stud game but twenty more holdem games for every one.

A lot of the reason stud games have been good through the years has been due to the fact that many people grew up playing some version of stud at home. The people nowadays are going to be growing up acustomed to playing a diffrent game (holdem)at the kitchen table. The fact that stud looks complex to people and that the game is slower will always keep it in holdems shadow. What a shame. I play every form of poker and stud is by far the greatest game.

Mike Emery

[Iceman]

In 1998, before Rounders and the WPT, Foxwoods was about 75% stud, and there were just a few holdem and Omaha-8 tables.

[beset7]

Just an aside, I started playing poker seriously in the last two years, but I've been studying it and playing casually for five years or (subservent to backgammon and chess until now).

A lot of the new players, as you've mentioned, are only interested in hold em. But, in the last 6 months, it seems like every newer player I talk to is chatting about Omaha H/L, stud, stud8, etc. I think the fact that WSOP showed a lot of PLO and Stud on ESPN last year is what started it. They tend to be break-even or losing players who are hoping that stud or omaha offers a way out of the variance they suffer LHE 3/6 and 4/8 tables. The tribal casinos up here are spreading Omaha/8 and Stud games now and a year ago you couldn't find anything but Hold Em with the exception of a couple retiree dealers choice games at some bowling allys and so forth.

So, before you order up a gravestone for Stud, take heart! I'd wager that this year's WSOP broadcast will broadcast some of the H/L tourneys, both Stud and Omaha, that they skipped last year.

Beset7

[DyessMan89]

I think it cant go anywhere but up. I mean, pretty soon NL Texas Holdem will die out, and many people will transfer to Stud. Many new players who got into poker becuase of Holdem are now beginning to study and learn stud, and it shouldnt be long untill Stud id just as popular IMO.

[Andy B]

Obviously, hold'em is getting more exposure than stud is with TV and all. Yes, a couple of stud tournaments from the WSOP were televised, but that compares with how many hold'em shows? I watched one of the stud events in a bar, and I found the switching around and shading of the cards confusing. I'm a very experienced stud player. I grant you that the sound was down, but if I'm having trouble following a hand on TV, what kind of chance does that give the typical viewer?

The other thing is that card rooms aren't doing much to promote stud. Canterbury Park, for example, promotes hold'em almost exclusively. They frequently add money to hold'em jackpots. They haven't done that for stud or Omaha for two or three years now. With the exception of the Monday morning stud tournament, all tournaments are now hold'em. Their policy on proposition players is apparently to fill hold'em seats to the detriment of other games, independent of whether it makes sense or not. This was a new policy as of about a week ago, and there was some confusion about its interpretation. A couple of employees were taken out of last week's $20/40 Omaha/8 game to fill seats in smaller-stakes hold'em games, and the new policy was cited. Another employee played briefly in Thursday's $30/60 stud/8 game, so maybe it's subject to the shift manager's discretion or something.

Anyway, since there are more hold'em hands played in an hour, and since most places drop the same amount per hand whatever the game, the trend across the industry is towards promoting hold'em and hoping that the other games will quietly go away.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

andy hit it right on the head on this one.

more players want to play hold'em. a simple case of supply and demand

and more importantly, hold'em is more profitable for the casinos because more hands are delt per hour, so they'll do everything they can to promote hold'em and put the other games in the rear view.