PlayerViewNET SNG features.

[CT11]

What features are important in tournaments is what I have:
VP$IP, PFR, aggression, total hands.

filterable by:
remaining players.
How should filtering by remaining players work?
filter by exactly this many players, filter by this many or more/less? or filter by this many +/- n?


I'm not a SNG player so I need your input. Also if some one could email me full hand histories of maybe ~5 SNGs with the tourny report that would help a lot.

~CT

[Soleo]

These stats you listed are probably most important, IMO other stats (like "in the money %") are less informative/necessary.

filter by exactly this many players, filter by this many or more/less? or filter by this many +/- n?

Sure, very good idea. You should auto take current number of players but let user set the spread like 0-1-2-.. to see stats for this and surrounding numbers of opponents ("0" spread will be OK for guys who played thousands of tourneys and have very detailed stats on most opponents). I'd prefer to choose "1" spread to see this number stats +/-1 (for 2 additional surrounding numbers) because of less stats available in my PT database.

Also could you please add checkbox to switch off spreading from number of players 3 and down:
[X] Switch off spread (take exact stats for this number of players) from 3 players and down
Magic number 3 is because since that game changing to absolutely another kind of poker and taking surrounding (previous) number of player stats will be incorrect.

However abovementioned will reflect well only opponents who played some tournaments previously with us.
To also have some help/stats about new opponents (playing first tournament with us) you should add a check-box
[X] Use complete stats from current tournament for new players
because there are not enough data to show them on per-number-of-players basis.

[Soleo]

Several comments came to my mind:

1. Second checkbox ("Use complete stats ..") must have priority over 1st (stats for new players should always be displayed summarizing all their current tournament stats).

2. Actually both checkboxes are unnecessary and they probably would be better as permanently active rules.

3. Sometimes there are no stats for specific player who already played 1 (or several) tournaments with us against specific number of players just because he was busted (left) tournament before torunament came to specific number of players. Then he must be shown same as other "new" players (just summarize all available stats on him) when game reaches this number of players and we are going out of stats on him.

4. This is necessary to visually distinguish summarized stat-players ("new" and out of stats for this level) from really detailed stats. What about showing small circled "?" icon near "new" players whose stats doesn't reflect current number of players but are his totals. (This will help to be prepared to fact that his stats are less relevant).

Sorry for my English - I am ready to explain my suggestions in any details. I posted a link to this thread to SnG forum so we will probably give you more ideas on SnG implementation soon.

Thanks!

[Jman28]

I posted this in another of your threads......

"Here's my suggestion...

using the following table, or a better one, http://home.earthlink.net/~craighowa.../matchup2.html , display the odds shown on the table against top 25% and 40% hands for any hand we get.

For instance, JTs is 1:1.3 against the top 40% of hands and 1:1.4 against the top 25%. So, when dealt JTs, "1:1.3" and "1:1.4" would show up.

In addition, if you could show some kind of indicator next to players of the type of hands they have pushed with or called with, that'd all make short handed play much quicker.

Should we have a thread for SnG suggestions?

-Jman28 "

[CT11]

[ QUOTE ]
I posted this in another of your threads......

"Here's my suggestion...

using the following table, or a better one, http://home.earthlink.net/~craighowa.../matchup2.html , display the odds shown on the table against top 25% and 40% hands for any hand we get.



[/ QUOTE ]
This table is copyrighted any clue how to derive this?
Also we currently don't get any real-time information on what two cards you have _now_.

[ QUOTE ]

In addition, if you could show some kind of indicator next to players of the type of hands they have pushed with or called with, that'd all make short handed play much quicker.


[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure I can implement this. I have too many questions. Many of them I'm sure most people will not agree on answers.

What is a type A or type Z or type Gamma or type 4 hand? What is pushing? If I minbet or minraise you is that pushing? Where's the line? What does this mean for a limit tournament? Can you even "push" in limit? how often would a player have to call with a hand XX to make them a "caller" with that hand? Doesn't positing, and opponents actions change things? Do you have enough hands on most players to make stats like this converge to a useful number? It may take a few hundred or thousand _shown_ cards to determine what 'type' hands they play when. A computer is good for calculating. Not so good for thinking.

I play limit full-ring games. So I need more specific suggestions that are easily quantifiable.

[ QUOTE ]

Should we have a thread for SnG suggestions?

[/ QUOTE ]
This is the thread.

[Ryendal]

Well I would be interested to see stats like ITM and finish place, to understand who is not a fish quickly.
Useful for 110$ and 215$ SNG

[CT11]

[ QUOTE ]
Well I would be interested to see stats like ITM and finish place, to understand who is not a fish quickly.
Useful for 110$ and 215$ SNG

[/ QUOTE ]

How should finish place be displayed? an average?

~CT

[Aces_McCoy]

I pretty much play exclusively SNGs and I must say, Soleos ideas sound a bit complicated to me... I do think we should all continue to throw ideas out there though.

One way to approach the problem is to think about what question it would be nice to have answered... and then we can use that to determine what statistics we should display.

Some questions/stats to answer them:

Is this person a good tournament player? Do I need to respect them?

I think stats showing % of time they placed (Either 1,2 or 3) would be extremely useful to determine this. I don't think it would be all that valuable distinguish between 1st and 3rd finishes as once it's to that stage, there is often a bit of luck involved.

Is this person a nut/maniac?

Not sure what statistics we can dig up to find out this info, but I would love to know how often in early rounds a person pushes all of their chips in. Some players are all-in maniacs and will push at the drop of a hat. I would like some way to determine who these people are. (Although, it would probably be somewhat indicated by how often they are in the money... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Other people RARELY push their chips all-in, and when they do, you have to respect it. The same stat could hopefully identify both.

What is this persons "standard" raise. This might be more useful than a stat to determine how many times a player pushes all in. (After all, when you are short stacked, you HAVE to push all in, it's not because you want to. A more telling statistic might be:

What is this persons average raise at this stage?
This might be useful computed in relation to the Big Blind. A person who has a 2xBB standard raise at a particular stage is probably very tight/conservative/passive... Where as a person who has a standard raise of 10xBB is probably very aggressive/nut/maniac. This stat would also be useful heads up. (Do they always push All-in as their raise, or do they sometimes raise less...)

In no limit, it would be particularly helpful to know the following statistics.

% of time Check Raised at Turn
% of time Check Raised at River
% of time the player won when Check Raising

Those three right there would be worth the price of admission... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


Part of the problem lies in that statistics that are important when you have 4-10 players are different than for the stats you want to have heads up. The stats that can help you get at least a 3rd place are the ones that would be valuable to me. Beyond that, it's an entirely different game.

I have used a little utility called "Straight Stats" to determine what % of times players have seen the flop during THAT particular SnG. I use it in real time and as limited as that one piece of info is, it is very useful. You would think it wouldn't be that handy, because near the end of a tournament, players stats get skewed up.. (They are seeing more flops...) However, I've found that isn't necessarily the case. When you look at this stat compared to other players that are still in, they all skew up together, so the info is still valuable. But I digress...


Anyway, the above are a few thoughts for discussion. I think we should almost mentally design a layout before anyone starts directing CT and Amir to code anything...

All the best!

-Aces_McCoy

[CT11]

Thanks for the feed back. I'll try to work as much of that into my spec as I can. I have a feeling the tourney code is going to be a bit more challenging.

Can any one tell me what goes on the denominator of the CR %?

~CT

[Soleo]

I'd suggest to not use that table: it have some deviations from real numbers because based on some incorrect assumptions: the fact that AA may be dealt much fewer ways than AK (etc) is ignored there.