mirage 10/20: which part was worse?

pdavester · #1 11-17-2004, 06:55 AM

This game is a little bit on the tight side, usually only 2-3 in a raised pot. I have a very tight image at this table, I have tabled premium hands everytime I have raised.

Hero is dealt A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] UTG+1

UTG folds, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP2 3-bets, everyone folds to the BB who calls, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

(this was the first part I didnt like, the preflop call of the 3-bet).

Flop: 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
BB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks
Turn: A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
BB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, BB folds, Hero folds, MP1 folds

I was a little uneasy about the preflop call because I really didnt want to hit an ace. Then when it came I just folded because I didnt want to get involved. when he checks the flop it looks like AK, it fit good when he bet the turn so I folded.

What do you guys think? what was worse, calling preflop or folding the turn.

PokerDork · #2 11-17-2004, 07:49 AM

The preflop call is easy... you're getting 11.5:1 on a hand that plays well multi-way. MP2's preflop 3 bet flop check, is probably AK, but I think it might be ok to bet and fold to a raise on the turn, especially if you think it would be possible MP2 could 3-bet 88, 99, or KQs, or conversely somehow got scared or too fancy on the flop with KK, QQ, or JJ Both of these scenarios do seem somewhat unlikely, but with no specific info about the villain its tough to know exactly what to do. You described the game as tight, but a little more info on the villain would make this hand a little bit easier to analyze.

pdavester · #3 11-17-2004, 12:39 PM

The villian had just sat down two orbits ago. Once before the hero raised in late position and the villian did not protect his big blind. He hadnt been seeing too many flops either. So I classified him as a tight player.

You are right about the possibilities of his other hands, however it wouldnt seem logical to check QQ, JJ, KK on that 2 heart flop. I think he could have checked an underpair though being scared of the T. Then why bet the A when it comes on fourth street if he has 88 or 99?

onegymrat · #4 11-17-2004, 01:40 PM

Then why bet the A when it comes on fourth street if he has 88 or 99?
So you could fold. His 3-bet is correct pf for many reasons. He has a hand worth calling so raising may be better, and if you don't have a big pair, he has control and position on the hand. With you simply not 4-betting pf, and checking twice, it's an easy bet for him on the turn to represent AK (which he may or may not have). I think calling down at the minimum is clear.

SheridanCat · #5 11-17-2004, 02:16 PM

I can't fold pre-flop; you have a good multi-way hand. I'd probably call, but I could see raising (that wouldn't be a cap at the Mirage, right?). If you hit the flush, you want people hanging on because the pot is big.

I don't like giving a free card on the flop. I bet. My hand now sucks for multiway action, but it still have a shot, and my shot gets better the more people I can get to fold.

On the turn there's a chance you're beaten, but I'd still call it down.

If I was first in after the flop check-around, I'd bet. I'm smelling weakness, so why not bet the scare card. That's what MP2 is doing and it worked out. A checkraise might have been good there too, as it could get you a free showdown.

If I bet the turn and was raised, okay I'd start believing. Bluff raises aren't that common in tight games, in my experience.

I think you played it too weak. You started doubting yourself right away and started seeing monsters.

Regards,

T

surfdoc · #6 11-17-2004, 02:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A checkraise might have been good there too, as it could get you a free showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure I am following you here. How do you check raise and then get a free showdown. Any decent player with AK here will value bet when you check the river after he calls your turn CR. No?

andyfox · #7 11-17-2004, 02:48 PM

Folding is definitely worse than calling pre-flop. Still might be the right play though.

I'm hesitant to classify a player as tight based on just two orbits. Then again, he may have classified you as tight and when you (and everyone else) check twice, he might now bet his pocket 9s or 8s. And maybe he has Kc-Qc.

You're correct that his hand seems to be A-K. But I'd have bet the turn to see.

andyfox · #8 11-17-2004, 03:03 PM

"why bet the A when it comes on fourth street if he has 88 or 99?"

Check-check-check on the flop. Check-check-check on the turn. My hand just might be good and I'd better bet before yet another overcard comes.

More likely, though, it's A-K, as you say.

SheridanCat · #9 11-17-2004, 03:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A checkraise might have been good there too, as it could get you a free showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure I am following you here. How do you check raise and then get a free showdown. Any decent player with AK here will value bet when you check the river after he calls your turn CR. No?

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh, you're right. Your checkraise won't get him to fold and rather than paying 2 bets to get to the showdown you might have to pay 3. No checkraise there then. Thanks.

Regards,

T

schroedy · #10 11-17-2004, 04:24 PM

Some players also have an automatic bet in this situation -- last to act, checked through on the flop, checked to you on the turn. Just bet and let's deal another hand.

With others, however, I think AK is most likely and if a "play" is being put on, I would guess TT rather than the overpair. AK being a strong favorite.