calling down with K high

[stanky]

10-20 very good game(same one as my 78 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] post, alot of people seeing the flop)

4 limpers, SB completes, I raise in BB with K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]


FLOP: A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I bet, one caller to button(maniac at times I've seen him bet Q high to the river and on the river with nothing but a gut shot) he raises, folded to me I three bet, caller folds, maniac caps.I decide to call him down as long as [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] doesn't show, if I hit a K,J,10 non-diamond on the turn I plan to check raise.

turn is a blank: check, bet, I call

river is the K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]: check, bet, I call(OK I know I said I'd fold to a diamond but come on... it's the K, I have to call this maniac)

comments?

-Pete

[schroedy]

If you have him pegged as a maniac you are compelled to check and call or check and raise depending on how confident you are that you have the best hand. If you check and raise, it should be that you want all four bets to go in.

But the whole analysis is in the "if you have him pegged . . . " part. After that the board, the progression of the hand, your cards (to an extent -- unless you are suited, connected and small, i.e., can't beat a bluff) . . . don't matter.

btw -- if he is a maniac, won't the diamond on the end just be an invitation to bluff? In other words, a maniac is more likely to have nothing when something is possible and more likely to have something when nothing is possible.

[Doubling12]

I am confused by playing the flop to get 4 bets in, when you don't have anything, and you're out of position.

[schroedy]

After I posted my serious response, I too, had the feeling that the whole purpose of the initial post was to dupe me in.

If the river bettor plays worse than hero, he will not be in the game very long either.

This is either a great read that was miraculously redeemed on the river, or tragically bad play from start to end.

[stanky]

I three bet it on the flop because I put him on a draw and needed the original caller that was in between us to fold. Once he folded I was sure my K high was good.


-Pete

[schroedy]

Doesn't the Kd then complete the two most obvious draws?

[stanky]

yes it does. My river call was horrible, he had J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. When the K came on the end I abondoned my initial read and thought maybe he was betting a Q or 9 or small pocket pair.

I thought about my river play later and was still upset that I made that call but I also thought about something that I think is more important.That is... Why put myself in a situation like this, just fold on the flop, let him take it down , be patient, and get his money and when I have top pair or some other solid hand and he calls me down like I know he will. Thanks for your thoughts.

-Pete

[roy_miami]

No way can you fold this river nor is there any way your read can be 100% he's on a flush draw. Your getting 13-1 on the river call, you think he has flush more than 93%? Maybe 75% at best which makes it an easy call over a raise.

I really like the rest of the hand and you may have even pushed the MP guy off of an A or at least a better hand than yours, good job.

[TStoneMBD]

you dont think your hand is good here 1:13 times?

[roy_miami]

[ QUOTE ]
That is... Why put myself in a situation like this, just fold on the flop, let him take it down , be patient, and get his money and when I have top pair or some other solid hand and he calls me down

[/ QUOTE ]

You cant fold this flop because of the straight draw outs alone that you gave yourself odds to chase with the preflop raise. Couple this with the fact your hand may be better than the maniacs I think you played it perfectly.