Pushing w/ AQs?

nightlyraver · #1 11-11-2004, 08:27 PM

My question is about Player 2's move - was this a good push? Here is what we know about Player 1: He has been playing very TAG, especially from EP. Most of his stack was accumilated from all-ins up against hands that he dominated...

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (9 handed)

MP3 (Player 2) (t4860)
CO (t8968)
Button (t34880)
SB (t11115)
BB (t5130)
UTG (t18480)
UTG+1 (t7066)
MP1 (t18579)
Player 1 (t4705)

Preflop: Player 1 is MP2 with (in white) with KK:. Player 2 is MP3 with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, Player 1 raises to t1705, MP3 (Player 2) raises to t4860 (All-In), CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, Player 1 calls t3000 (All-In).

Flop: (t10465) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (t10465) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t10465) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t10465

Boris · #2 11-11-2004, 08:33 PM

Often when a short stack makes a weeny little raise (like t1705) it means they have a monster hand. Only problem is that AQ suited is also totally sweet hand for a shortstack. So even though you suspect you may be against a big hand I think you have to take your chances with AQ, which in this situation should be considered a premium hand.

ThingDo · #3 11-11-2004, 08:56 PM

T1705 when you only have T4800 or so when the blinds are 300/600 is hardly a small raise. He's putting nearly half his stack in the pot. I'm not sure what you consider to be a small raise but this certainly isn't one. If Player 1 is as tight as you say and knowing that he's already put nearly half his stack in the pot so you know you have 0 folding equity I think you can fold this and wait for another one. While you are obviously still shortstacked you still have some hands to play and enough chips to steal your way into contention. I'm not saying its easy, but I think its correct in this case to fold.

nightlyraver · #4 11-12-2004, 11:31 AM

Are you saying Player 1 should have pushed in this spot? I suppose that raising any more than he did would have to be a push...

zaxx19 · #5 11-12-2004, 02:21 PM

Depending on how the play went down i think it was a foolish all-in i probably make a stop and go play here if i spike a ace or queen on the flop. Suprisingly a queen wouldnt help but it is still a good counter to hands like JJ, 10-10,9-9 which are completely possible(especially JJ).The reason the all in was silly was there was no folding equity and you are probably behind so why not call and see the flop??? Either do this or muck. If the small stack has been playing rock hard i just might much here ...(i can here the jeering 2+2ers already..AQ i just got knocked out of a tourney again by going over the top with AQ just not a great hand even late in a tourney.

OldLearner · #6 11-12-2004, 04:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i probably make a stop and go play here

[/ QUOTE ]

Stop and Go:

1)You are 1st to act.

2)You do not have enough chips to push and hope your opponent folds preflop, but by pushing on the flop, you may get him to fold.

phixxx · #7 11-12-2004, 06:58 PM

Why get it in before the flop? I don't see much point to that...half of his stack is in the pot. No matter what falls on the flop, his chips are going in after the flop. The best play here would be to take a flop, you're saving alot in chips by taking a flop and seeing what develops.

No Q or A? Fold, save chips.

Q or A? Move in, most likely take the pot

Move in preflop? Surrender your post flop play to a 4800 chip crapshoot that could have been easily avoided by taking a flop.

Boris · #8 11-12-2004, 07:06 PM

Player 1 can do anything he wants. He has KK. He just had a bad beat.

Boris · #9 11-12-2004, 07:11 PM

I'll let the math wizards chime in here, but what do you think are the chances of getting a hand superior to AQ suited within the next 18 hands? At this point in the tourney you have to gamble. There is no better solution. You will often times find yourself against a smaller ace, two suited face cards or a pocket pair smaller than Queens. Just becuase the enemy woke up with KK in this particular case doesn't mean its a bad play.

Boris · #10 11-12-2004, 07:15 PM

flat calling with the intention of folding if you don't hit the flop is the worst possible play on this hand. Flat calling and then moving all in on the flop no matter what can be justified.