How am I not beating party 25?

luckycharms · #1 11-10-2004, 01:31 PM

Where am I going wrong?
Some hand histories:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.5 BB (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG ($21.81)
UTG+1 ($25)
Hero ($25)
MP2 ($16.12)
MP3 ($3.37)
CO ($48.6)
Button ($57.6)
SB ($24)
BB ($36.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, 2 folds, CO calls $0.50, 1 fold, SB completes, BB raises to $2, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $1.50, Hero calls $1.50, CO calls $1.50, SB calls $1.50.

Flop: ($10.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets $3, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls $3, CO folds, SB raises to $6, BB calls $3, Hero calls $3.

Turn: ($28.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets $5, BB calls $5, Hero folds.

River: ($38.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, BB checks.

Final Pot: $38.50
Main Pot: $38.50, between SB and BB.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.5 BB (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

SB ($20.25)
BB ($13.75)
UTG ($25)
UTG+1 ($31.55)
MP1 ($53.5)
MP2 ($31.05)
Hero ($51.75)
CO ($39.85)
Button ($19.3)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 raises to $4, Hero calls $4, 3 folds, BB calls $3.50.

Flop: ($12.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets $10, BB calls $9.75 (All-In), MP2 folds.

Turn: ($32) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($32) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $32
Main Pot: $31.75, between BB and Hero.
Pot 2: $0.25, returned to Hero.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.5 BB (10 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

MP3 ($20)
CO ($29.7)
Button ($24.75)
SB ($31.05)
BB ($51)
UTG ($41.35)
UTG+1 ($27.05)
Hero ($38)
MP1 ($39.35)
MP2 ($21.2)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to $1, 1 fold, MP2 calls $1, 1 fold, CO calls $1, Button calls $1, 1 fold, BB calls $0.50.

Flop: ($5.25) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB bets $1, Hero raises to $3, MP2 calls $3, CO folds, Button folds, BB raises to $7, Hero calls $4, MP2 calls $4.

Turn: ($26.25) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets $7, Hero raises to $30 (All-In), MP2 folds, BB calls $23.

River: ($86.25) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $86.25
Main Pot: $86.25, between BB and Hero.

Note: I'm quad tabling and taking notes on nobody. How detrimental is that? Its been my experience in the past that I can wait for monsters and will get paid off by the absolute fish. It has worked for me in the past, but I seem to be on a short losing streak.

Also, I love the rule of 5 & 10 for pocket pairs, but does it also apply for more obscure draws like 45s or J9s? Thanks

Ben · #2 11-10-2004, 01:46 PM

1) Playing 8Ts is pretty loose, I wouldn't do it. Definitely fold to the raise
2) I'd probably reraise preflop. Calling isn't bad though. If you got beat by an overpair or trips that's just poker. It happens
3) I'd raise 4xBB preflop and raise more on the flop. If you get reraised on the flop things are a bit tricky, and you need a read on the raiser. Would he make that play with a weaker king that you can beat? If he'd only make that play with two-pair or trips, you should probably lay it down.

-Ben

Kips Bay Kid · #3 11-10-2004, 02:05 PM

Looks like a pretty loose table, but then again it's $25 max.

1) Fold, Fold, Fold - no reason to be in that hand.
2) Reraise PF - might have scared away the str8 drawer.
3) Raise more PF and on the Flop make a pot size bet.

Looks like you are playing too loose, and not aggressive enough. One thing that helped me was playing VERY tight from EP, only loosening up in later positions and betting more aggressively when you think you are ahead of your opponents.

amoeba · #4 11-10-2004, 02:18 PM

1. fold. you have suited one gapper in early position. and fold the flop too.

2. fine. normally I find smoothcalling decent PF bet with QQ to be better move. Although in this case, since villain is so shortstacked where you will definitely call his preflop push, should he push after your reraise, reraising PF is fine as well and almost preferable since you shut out 3rd guy.

3. raise more preflop.

snowbank · #5 11-10-2004, 02:18 PM

I would consider playing only one table until you can beat the game. 4-tabling is for people who want to maximize their win rates.

fimbulwinter · #6 11-10-2004, 02:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Where am I going wrong?
Some hand histories:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.5 BB (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG ($21.81)
UTG+1 ($25)
Hero ($25)
MP2 ($16.12)
MP3 ($3.37)
CO ($48.6)
Button ($57.6)
SB ($24)
BB ($36.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, 2 folds, CO calls $0.50, 1 fold, SB completes, BB raises to $2, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $1.50, Hero calls $1.50, CO calls $1.50, SB calls $1.50.

Flop: ($10.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets $3, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls $3, CO folds, SB raises to $6, BB calls $3, Hero calls $3.

Turn: ($28.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets $5, BB calls $5, Hero folds.

River: ($38.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, BB checks.

Final Pot: $38.50
Main Pot: $38.50, between SB and BB.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.5 BB (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

SB ($20.25)
BB ($13.75)
UTG ($25)
UTG+1 ($31.55)
MP1 ($53.5)
MP2 ($31.05)
Hero ($51.75)
CO ($39.85)
Button ($19.3)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 raises to $4, Hero calls $4, 3 folds, BB calls $3.50.

Flop: ($12.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets $10, BB calls $9.75 (All-In), MP2 folds.

Turn: ($32) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($32) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $32
Main Pot: $31.75, between BB and Hero.
Pot 2: $0.25, returned to Hero.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.5 BB (10 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

MP3 ($20)
CO ($29.7)
Button ($24.75)
SB ($31.05)
BB ($51)
UTG ($41.35)
UTG+1 ($27.05)
Hero ($38)
MP1 ($39.35)
MP2 ($21.2)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to $1, 1 fold, MP2 calls $1, 1 fold, CO calls $1, Button calls $1, 1 fold, BB calls $0.50.

Flop: ($5.25) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB bets $1, Hero raises to $3, MP2 calls $3, CO folds, Button folds, BB raises to $7, Hero calls $4, MP2 calls $4.

Turn: ($26.25) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets $7, Hero raises to $30 (All-In), MP2 folds, BB calls $23.

River: ($86.25) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $86.25
Main Pot: $86.25, between BB and Hero.

Note: I'm quad tabling and taking notes on nobody. How detrimental is that? Its been my experience in the past that I can wait for monsters and will get paid off by the absolute fish. It has worked for me in the past, but I seem to be on a short losing streak.

Also, I love the rule of 5 & 10 for pocket pairs, but does it also apply for more obscure draws like 45s or J9s? Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

read other's responses for indivudual hand analyses;

until you know you are beating the game DON'T EVER:

-minraise preflop
-play a suited connector/semiconnector anywhere except CO and button
-call with a big hand preflop. (AA/KK/QQ/AK) raise any bets into you, fold to big pushes with QQ/AK, call them with AA/KK
-get pretty. no slowplaying unless you know the guy is better than you. bet your strong hands just like your bluffs, leave habitual slowplaying for the fish.
-bald bluff anywhere but on the river. dont bet unless you have good outs or a good hand; they'll call you 90% of the time.
-apply the 5/10 rule to anything but PP's for now. yes, you can use a suited connector, but the draws they often leave you with are HUGE trouble for new players. use something like a 3/6 rule for suited connectors. use like a 2/4 rule for semiconnectors.

these are simple ground rules which will have you beating the game. only when you know how to play by them may you break them, and even then only for good reasons (IE the player is too good to pay off proper play).

good luck,
fim

luckycharms · #7 11-10-2004, 02:55 PM

no minraise preflop?

I find that a minraise with a mid-pp is great from mp or lp in a multiway pot. If I set, there's more money in the pot for people to gamble with, and that's the kind of hand where I really, really want to pump the pot. I think it's ugly to raise the pot with 88, and it seems wrong to see an 8 on the flop with $2.50 in the pot. Am I wrong?

phil_ivey_fan · #8 11-10-2004, 03:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
no minraise preflop?

I find that a minraise with a mid-pp is great from mp or lp in a multiway pot. If I set, there's more money in the pot for people to gamble with, and that's the kind of hand where I really, really want to pump the pot. I think it's ugly to raise the pot with 88, and it seems wrong to see an 8 on the flop with $2.50 in the pot. Am I wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I know what you're saying...I sometimes to do that as well (depending on the table).
1) it pisses people off which
2) makes some people more aggressive post-flop so
3) when you hit your set, you'll get action

Fim...could you elaborate on this a little more (as to why its a bad idea)...

Kips Bay Kid · #9 11-10-2004, 03:22 PM

I think he is suggesting NOT doing it as it invites someone to reraise your min-raise, do you really want to be calling that raise with a small PP?

luckycharms · #10 11-10-2004, 03:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think he is suggesting NOT doing it as it invites someone to reraise your min-raise, do you really want to be calling that raise with a small PP?

[/ QUOTE ]

At Party25, it NEVER gets reraised. I mean not once.