KJs been giving me problems

[Ritter]

Trying to figure out why I'm (0.29)/Hand with KJs - this was the first hand I came across...no reads at all...

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="666666">4 folds</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero ???

1) Raise preflop?
2) Raise turn?
3) Call or Fold river?

[Kluddeludde]

I would raise preflop. You have lots of equity with that hand. I would be inclined to raise the turn also and then take a free showdown. If you are 3-bet, fold.

I think you can safely fold the river as well.

Kludde

[StellarWind]

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Trying to figure out why I'm (0.29)/Hand with KJs

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You can't be serious about this. Don't make me get Sample Size Man.

Easy preflop raise from the button. QJs and KTs too.

[JimRivett]

Here's what I would do. I would raise pre flop. I think the river is an easy fold.

Hope this helps, Jim

[joker122]

what klude said. the turn bet is usually a weaker jack or a single diamond - he'd check raise with a made flush.

[StellarWind]

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I would be inclined to raise the turn also and then take a free showdown. If you are 3-bet, fold.

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How does this benefit you over just calling down? Based on the flop play it's clear that SB has something to show and not just a flush draw. He's not going to fold the river when the flush doesn't come.

If SB calls the turn raise and bets the river you will not be happy no matter what you do.

Raising and getting 3-bet also loses your outs against two pair.

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I think you can safely fold the river as well.

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I'm not sure about this. But if it is correct to fold here then raising the turn is bad. Don't pay in advance for a "free" showdown you might not need.

[Redeye]

[ QUOTE ]
Trying to figure out why I'm (0.29)/Hand with KJs - this was the first hand I came across...no reads at all...


[/ QUOTE ]

I have almost 30k hands in my PT database and am just now starting to get into the black with AKs. Even with that sample I've only recieved AKs about 100 times which is much to small to draw any real conclusion from.

[joker122]

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How does this benefit you over just calling down?

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It protects your hand.

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Based on the flop play it's clear that SB has something to show and not just a flush draw.

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This turn bet is very often a picked up draw, so I think it's moderately likely he has a good diamond and a pair.

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Raising and getting 3-bet also loses your outs against two pair.

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2 pair doesn't 3bet this turn.

[StellarWind]

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This turn bet is very often a picked up draw, so I think it's moderately likely he has a good diamond and a pair.

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Then you agree with me that he has something to show down. He is not betting a pure flush draw on the turn.

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It protects your hand.

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What does this mean? Do you expect him to fold to your turn raise?

You are not going to make an extra bet by raising the turn and checking behind on the river. Calling the turn and either calling the river or betting behind him on the river works out exactly the same. It would be different if we thought he might fold the river, but he can't because he has a pair.

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2 pair doesn't 3bet this turn.

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Any aggressive player is likely to do it. Losing up to 8 outs to win an 8 BB pot is a disaster.

So what do you plan to do when he calls your turn raise and bets a blank on the river? You've already paid full price for a showdown. Folding is probably correct, but even a 5% chance of being good means your free showdown play has lost 0.4 BB.

[Kluddeludde]

If you raise and he has a flush he will 3-bet or possibly just call if he is very passive. This will allow you to take a free showdown and lose the same amount as if you had just called down. If he bets into you on the river, you can fold. It is a rare player that will pull a double stop 'n go with less than top pair, second best kicker.

If he has two pair, he will call the turn and very likely check to you on the river. A typical player at party 2/4 are not aggressive. They are passive and scared of your "flush".

If he has a pair+flush draw, raising is clearly best. You gain more by raising, as opposed to calling, if he should make his flush/two pair/trips by the river.

I say, get your money in while you have the best of it, especially since it is very likely that you will not lose more if you are behind.

Kludde