Bellagio 4/8 J9s

[felson]

2 am Bellagio weeknight. My table has just broken up, so I moved to this new table and have been here for one orbit. Game looks fairly loose passive.

I limp UTG with J9 diamonds. Some more limpers, maybe 3. BB raises. BB is a Northwestern student who has shown down two consecutive winners. He seems to play well. I had jokingly told him I would stay out of his way. Everyone calls the raise, 5 or 6 to the flop. Let's say 6.

Flop is A6x with two diamonds, including the ace of diamonds. BB bets, I call, 2 other callers.

Turn is Q no diamond. Bet-call-call-fold.

River is non-diamond 6, pairing the board. BB bets, I raise.

[Richie Rich]

With roughly 12 big bets in the pot, this isn't one of those times when you can push a person out of a pot with one more bet. BB would be a fool if he didn't call your bluff/raise.

[SCfuji]

you aren't going to raise anybody out at this point, imo. and please fold this pf!

[felson]

This is an easy, easy preflop call in a loose passive game.

Okay, I know that the river raise is bad. Enough said.

I am more curious about the flop. Does anybody raise here to try to move BB off QQ etc.? Or is it more important to keep people in to pay me off if I hit.

[SCfuji]

i would just call to get other people to stay in and build the pot.

[Malcom Reynolds]

You want to build the pot because you are unlikely to win by hitting a J or a 9, so calling here is good. Most of the value in your hand is in the flush. If you had an overcard or two in addition to the flush draw then pushing people out of the pot is important and you should raise the flop to clean up those outs.

[spamuell]

I am more curious about the flop. Does anybody raise here to try to move BB off QQ etc.? Or is it more important to keep people in to pay me off if I hit.

I would raise for both these reasons.

Much as I like smart-arse posts, I'll just make it clear that what I mean is that you're fairly likely to get called anyway by the loose players, and if you can get BB to fold QQ and clear up your J and 9 outs (the loose players don't need an A to call you), great.

[Fat Nicky]

Pre-flop: fold. J9s is not an EP calling hand from UTG. You need to have at least J10s.

Flop: Fine

Turn: Fine

River: Fold. The way the hand played out, what could BB have that he will fold to a river-raise.

[felson]

[ QUOTE ]
Pre-flop: fold. J9s is not an EP calling hand from UTG. You need to have at least J10s.

[/ QUOTE ]

Man, you rocks drove me back to the textbook. SSH says J9s is a call UTG in a loose game. I don't want to hear any more about it!

[Malcom Reynolds]

I didn't think of that, nice answer!

Side question though: if BB was a loose player, would you still raise?