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#1
10-22-2004, 02:25 AM
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fold flush?
game is NL. bb is $1
willie has about $35. the other players in the hand have about the same. Willie is small blind with 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] numerous folds. LP calls. willie calls in SB. BB checks. 3 players. pot: $2.75 flop comes: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] willie checks. BB bets $4. LP calls. willie calls. pot: 14.25. turn comes 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] willie checks. bb checks. LP checks. danger alarm goes off in willies head. river comes J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] willie bets $4. BB folds. LP goes allin for $23 more. (pot is now $22, and its $23 more to call.) willie folds. does anyone call here on the river? does anyone fold the flop? does anyone attempt to semi-bluff pot at any time? 
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#2
10-22-2004, 02:53 AM
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Re: fold flush?
i would never fold
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#3
10-22-2004, 03:44 AM
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Re: fold flush?
Agreed. The time they have a higher flush will not offset the times they have a lower or (mainly) don't have one at all.
There is no reason to play 10/7 suited unless you are confident in it hitting. Then again, maybe there is a deeper lesson to learn here....
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#4
10-22-2004, 04:55 AM
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Re: fold flush?
[ QUOTE ]
does anyone call here on the river? [/ QUOTE ] Well I don't but that's because I've folded the hand twice already. I wouldn't dream of completing the SB with that crap and only one limper. And calling an potsized+ bet on the flop with a so so flush draw and no overcards just make me wanna scream calling station at you (sorry [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]) However you did make those two calls and got extremely lucky as they gave you a free river card and that free card turned out to complete your so so flush. Maybe you're beat but folding now after going all this way just makes your previous actions look even more fishy (sorry [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img])
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#5
10-22-2004, 05:52 AM
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Re: fold flush?
I don't think you should have played that hand at all. If it was a multi way pot, you might have completed the SB to see if you flopped two pair or a good straight (draw), but not with this limited field. It usually means bad pot odds, and not a lot to win if you make your hand.
And a ten high flush is something I never go for. Aces or kings only. Lower than that will usually just put you in a difficult position along way, where you start to worry about higher flushes.
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#7
10-22-2004, 10:29 AM
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Re: fold flush?
[ QUOTE ]
And a ten high flush is something I never go for. Aces or kings only. Lower than that will usually just put you in a difficult position along way, where you start to worry about higher flushes. [/ QUOTE ] i think this is less of a concern when you're 35xbb deep. if you play flush over flush and get stacked, so be it. much more likely you'll stack a top pair hand. i'd complete pre-flop, and if i had my thinking hat on, i'd fold the flop. one good reason to fold is that i's reasonably likely that LP has a flush draw, and it's probably bigger. realistically, i'd probably call the flop and then be embarassed about it. i like the turn check. the river bet's fine but i'd make it bigger. you're hoping villain has a hand like QT or TT, and i think he'll make the crying call for 1/2 pot. when he raises, i definitely call. there's too good a chance that he just hit a straight, two pair, or even a smaller flush. could also be bluffing a missed straight draw.
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#10
10-22-2004, 01:02 PM
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Re: fold flush?
thanks for the responses.
im actually quite confident that calling preflop has a slightly positive expectation for me. besides, it's fun. I agree with all of you on this - I blew it on the flop. The reason I can't call the there is simply that there is a significant chance that LP may have a flush draw, which of course devastates my expectation. At first it seems wrong, but I would actually be better off calling BB if LP folded. im actually getting fair to slightly poor (at worst) implied odds against BB. of course i'm getting very good implied odds against 2 opponents if i can assume that neither has a flush draw. but obviously thats very bad assumption. when both check turn my heart sinks as the possibility of another flush draw has just ballooned. on the river i bet medium/weak knowing that I am unlikely to be raised unless I am behind, and more likely to be called (although perhaps not enough to warrant this small of a bet) if i am ahead. Sure enough LP tells me I'm beat. i suppose its significant information that LP is a player who likes to admire himself as "a good player" aka - quite tight. he likes to point out stupidity when others miss their bluffs, apologize when he "accidentally" lays a bad beat on someone etc. knowing that there is ZERO chance that LP could have a straight (examine the hand, remember that I have the 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]) I can only assume that he has a flush and that it is probably about 90% to be better than mine. so the lesson is: all flush draws are not created equal. PS i asked LP how high he was and he showed me 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] all you skeptics who said the river is an obvious call were absolutely right.
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