Discussion about JJ--Expert Advice Sought

[Mattymar]

Searching through past posts and talking with a couple people, it seems that JJ is one of the trickiest starting hands. I've heard people say that they limp with JJ in EP if they have big stacks compared to the blinds. I've heard other people say that they always put in a standard raise with JJ. I'd like to set up a couple situations and see how you guys would play JJ PF.

#1) Early in tournament, you get JJ UTG. Blinds 10/20 you have T1500.

#2) Early in tournament, you get JJ on the button with 2 limpers. Again blinds 10/20 T1500

#3) Late in tournament, you get JJ as MP1 with 1 limper (UTG) who plays a lot of hands and likes to see flops. Blinds 100/200 and you have T4000. UTG has T5500 and the stacks behind you are about the same as yours.

I think it would be interesting to get some discussion going on a hand that seems to be debated quite often. Obviously, there are other situations that would be good to talk about but I figured I'd start with those 3. I'd be very interested to hear opinions on any situations you'd like to discuss with JJ.

Matt

[Lurshy]

I don't know if its 'expert advice', but I am in an aggressive mood, so I raise in all 3 of those spots.

1- Raise 4xbb - Hope to cut down field, if > 1 caller (likely early in tourney), and 1 or no overcards, I'll do a pot sized bet on flop. If more than one overcard, I may check fold. If hit set win big.

2-This is the closest one to a limp, but today I still favor a raise. Probably 3xbb.

3-The guy likes to see flops, I'm gonna make him pay to see it. Still about 3xBB. If I had a few less chips, and/or the blinds levels were up some, I would push.

Other days, or after I take a beating or two, I may get timid and try limping in at least the 2nd spot. One other situation, If I had JJ in BB and multi-way, I would just check or call, hoping to trap, or get away cheap.

[Bigwig]

I don't qualify as 'expert,' but here you go.

[ QUOTE ]
#1) Early in tournament, you get JJ UTG. Blinds 10/20 you have T1500.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raise to 80.

[ QUOTE ]
#2) Early in tournament, you get JJ on the button with 2 limpers. Again blinds 10/20 T1500

[/ QUOTE ]

Raise to 130.

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#3) Late in tournament, you get JJ as MP1 with 1 limper (UTG) who plays a lot of hands and likes to see flops. Blinds 100/200 and you have T4000. UTG has T5500 and the stacks behind you are about the same as yours.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raise to 900.

[KKsuited]

I was tought by a very good professional player how to play JJ.

1) Limp in, then fold no matter what the flop is.
2) Raise 2 bb's, then fold no matter what the flop is.
3) Raise 4 bb's, then fold no matter what the flop is.

That's how I usually play them and it's saved me more chips than I've ever made. Hope this helps.

[BuffaloSoldier]

Poker is a game about information. The trick is to get as much information as possible without committing yourself. Furthermore, if you have a lot of information about the players, the other variables change. Are these guys that respect doubling the bet as a sign of huge strength? Once they call a bet, are they "committed"... Will the size of the bet commit you? It's hard to set a standard raise here because there are a lot of variables. But lets try...

(1) Limp UTG, because you have no info about the players. Here, play this hand as you would play, say, 9-9.. you are hoping to hit a set. Prepare to fold if you don't hit your set and if there are a lot of limpers, as someone is almost always going to be better than you.

(2) There is now 70 in the pot. Raise to 120 (enough to tell people that you are serious but not enough that you can't stand a reraise). If you get a caller, he will most likely check to you regardless. If you miss and an ace comes, play your style. If your style is agressive, you have hit something huge! Swing like you mean it. If you are passiive, check and pray for a jack on the turn.

(3) Since he is aggressive, he will most certainly call a raise. I think a smooth call here is trouble, since you have no idea what he has. Raise to, say, 800 and see what he does. If he calls, then be scared if the flop brings an ace or paint. If it doesnt, fire another 1000 and be prepared to push on the turn if he misses again. Again, there are many variables here and use those variiables to make the best decision, but I think this is a pretty good strategy in a vaccum.

Cheers,

Mike

[jslag]

#1 and #2 could go either way. I'd be more apt to raise in late position than in early. If you raise UTG with JJ and get callers, then it's harder to know where you stand.

#3 -- I will raise it here almost every time. Not only do you have position, but you have some fold equity here. The blinds are now large enough to be stolen/picked up. If the limpers are weak you get a nice pot without seeing a flop. If you get called, then you have a pretty strong hand to continue with.

J.

[fnurt]

All 3 of those situations are raises in my book.

JJ is a strong hand. You don't want to go broke with it, but (this is a little poker secret of mine) there really aren't any hands that you want to go broke with!

If you raise and still end up with a big field you have to be cautious, but against one or two opponents you should continue to play aggressively until you meet with resistance. Overcards tend to make people freeze up, but in general it is a mistake to play as though your opponent holds AKQ, because in practice it is very unlikely that he holds all three of those cards.

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
Overcards tend to make people freeze up, but in general it is a mistake to play as though your opponent holds AKQ, because in practice it is very unlikely that he holds all three of those cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely. If I have JJ UTG, raise and get two callers, and the flop comes Q96, I'm coming out with a bet. Chances are you are still ahead.

Also, if I raise JJ UTG, get one caller, and the flop comes A87, I'm still betting. You'll even get some people to lay down their AT this way, because they're thinking 'Well, he's not afraid of the A, he must have me outkicked.'

JJ is a strong hand. I don't agree with playing it like 99 or 44, hoping for a set. That doesn't mean you go to the felt with it everytime, but people act as if it's a bad thing when they check their hole cards and see two hooks.

[Mattymar]

Interesting replies so far, some varying answers but overall consensus seems to be to raise in all 3 with a couple of people saying they might limp in #1 or #2.

Just wanted to add another variable, what if in #1 and #2 you are in say a <$50 re-buy tournament where there tends to be a few people willing to take some real risks early on. Do you raise 3 or 4x knowing you are most likely going to get called by at least one person? Or do you limp hoping to catch a set and take advatage of your opponents' aggressiveness? Also, if you limp, what do you do if they raise? Just some more things to think about.

Matt

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting replies so far, some varying answers but overall consensus seems to be to raise in all 3 with a couple of people saying they might limp in #1 or #2.

Just wanted to add another variable, what if in #1 and #2 you are in say a <$50 re-buy tournament where there tends to be a few people willing to take some real risks early on. Do you raise 3 or 4x knowing you are most likely going to get called by at least one person? Or do you limp hoping to catch a set and take advatage of your opponents' aggressiveness? Also, if you limp, what do you do if they raise? Just some more things to think about.

Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

That changes things considerably. In those scenarios, I'd still likely raise, but be more careful on the flop, especially against multiple callers. If the table is full of maniacs, I will limp EP, and call any raise that is reasonable, say, 10% of my stack or so.

In these types of games, you want to be playing almost all of your pocket pairs to the flop, because if you flop trips, you're likely to get paid off.