Defending BB with small pair

[BradleyT]

$1/$2 on Crypto.

I'm in BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG raises and it's folded around to me. UTG is not notoriously tight and if no ace or king come I will try a check-raise on turn to try and get him off a hand.

Good or bad?

[Professor Frink]

Do you think he'd call down the check raise without hand? What hands would you push him off if he had you beat?

I'd probably go for a call/call/bet, if he's the bet/bet/check after a raise type. On the turn there's 3.25BB after his bet, if you raise it's giving him 5.25 to 1 (and at least 6.25 including your river bet/call if he hits), which it not quite enough to draw to two overcards but given that he's looking at a pocket pair a good percentage of time (not sure how much), or could sometimes have other outs, i don't like the checkraise as it seems pretty thin.

I haven't really had this come up so i'm not sure. What's the thought behind this?

[Bez]

Fold. If he's so tight there is a decent chance he has a PP which you are going to bet into if no big card comes. You could lose a lot more than you can win in this small pot unless you catch the set.

[TheHip41]

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Good or bad?

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UTG raises and it's folded around to me

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Bad, really bad. This isn't a steal raise. Why get fancy in a nothing pot with no hand. Fold, next hand.

[Professor Frink]

Hang on, sure this is a close situation pre-flop but it's not a fold if you're not retarded post flop. Yes, UTG has a reasonable hand, but you'd be giving up +ev (albeit small) if you always fold in this situation.

When it comes to you, there is 3.25 SB in the pot and you need to put 1 in to see the flop, ie. the pots offering 3.25-1 on the call. If your equity is more than about a third a call is good here.

If the raiser only raised with AA-TT, AKs,AQs and AKo you'd still win 32% of the time. Since he is not notoriously tight then your equity will be better than this... ----> call preflop

[TheHip41]

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Hang on, sure this is a close situation pre-flop but it's not a fold if you're not retarded post flop. Yes, UTG has a reasonable hand, but you'd be giving up +ev (albeit small) if you always fold in this situation.

When it comes to you, there is 3.25 SB in the pot and you need to put 1 in to see the flop, ie. the pots offering 3.25-1 on the call. If your equity is more than about a third a call is good here.

If the raiser only raised with AA-TT, AKs,AQs and AKo you'd still win 32% of the time. Since he is not notoriously tight then your equity will be better than this... ----> call preflop

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I disagree. Even if he open raised with JTs, how does this help us in the BB with 44. Lets look at 4 flops

flop is AQ6 are you doing anything other than c/f? If so, you just folded to JTs

Flop is T73 You think, damn, great flop for me, he's got big cards. So you check, he bets, you raise, he 3-bets, now you are like, oh f---. so you call down and lose.

Flop is 349 You win, happens 1-8 times

This is all assuming he has trash cards.

If he has AA-TT, you are done

flop of 752 You check, he bets, you raise, he 3-bets, now what?

You still don't know if he has a big PP, or overs with a draw.

there are so many ways to lose this hand, it's not about the PREFLOP equity, or 44 is only a 4-1 dog to AA, it's about post flop, you won't be able to win more when you are ahead, and you will have to call down with the loser, thereby losing more money when you are losing

Easy fold.

Now, if there were 2-3 cold callers, easy call [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Professor Frink]

You're right with this, (my bad [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]), i calculated results of the different scenarios (not including flushes and straights) and the later streets kill ya. The critcal factor is the river, you have to call the bet when behind, but he don't have to call/bet when he's behind with A high. If that wasn't a factor it'd be ok pre-flop call, but since it's not ---> fold preflop.

Sorry bout that, at least i learnt something [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Stork]

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UTG is not notoriously tight ...

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Knowing how to read is a valuable tool.

Anyways, I would reraise him before the flop, where you probably have the best hand.

[Professor Frink]

Yes i know that, but in my interpretation that doesn't mean that he's a monkey and given that, it's really fricken hard to make this a profitable call over the long term, even if he'd raising with hands as weak as KJo, ATo etc.