Stuck In A Rut - Party $2/$4

[PaultheS]

Alright, at the beginning of August I bought into Party with 50BB for .5/1, worked it up to 300 BB for 1/2, then around 400BB for 2/4. During that time, I always felt comfortable playing hands in .5/1 or 1/2... I'm not sure that I always made the right choices, but I always had a choice in my mind that seemed right and came easily.

Now, since moving to 2/4, I've lost a bit (in a trivial number of hands), but more importantly, I find myself totally lost. I bought and read TOP and SSHE right after 1/2 and took a break from poker while doing that. When I play a hand, I'm often not sure what to do and a lot of the time right after doing something I go back and think "...why the heck did I do that?" Has anyone else experienced something like this? I think it may be due to some kind of information overload, although I had learned most of the concepts from SSHE already through the forums here.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Go back to $1/$2 until I can regain my confidence, or just stick to playing one table of shaky $2/$4 until I feel comfortable?

[btspider]

A bit vague but it happens. .50/1.00 was a breeze for me, as was 1/2 for 10K hands. Then I hit a huge -200 BB slide, started questioning some of my basic play, took a break, earned it back, then started 2/4. The 2/4 jump feels like a bigger one than the 1/2 did.. in part because I know the variance can be larger and I really want to avoid the next huge downswing. Of course I know that its inevitable and that I can't weaken my game fearing it.

If you never experienced a big downswing or extended period of break even poker, its natural to lose some of your comfort level when it finally does happen. Take a break if its affecting your game. Take a break from reading and take in some sunshine and lollypops before coming back. Its just poker. Put things in perspective. Everyone goes through the bumps. I guess that's what you wanted to hear [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

BTW, how many hands did you play at 1/2?

[jtr]

I sympathize, PaultheS.

My own story involves about six months of pretty successful (but hardly full-time) play at the no-limit $100 tables. (Where I was basically a nut-peddling gimp, but that's another story.) I then moved over here to the low-limit world, feeling that I needed to make sure I was good at both forms of Hold'em if I was really going to be serious about the game. I also get the occasional oppportunity to play $4/$8 or a bit more live, which I highly recommend to any 2+2er slogging it out at 1/2 or 2/4. A real confidence boost, I assure you.

So anyway, I looked around for the right limit to play at Party. I played some $3/$6, figuring I had the bankroll, did well over a short span of hands, lost it all again, and then moved down because I wasn't sure whether the losses were a bad run or bad play. I tried $1/$2, and then figured that was too straightforward and probably not educational enough. Since then I've moved to $2/$4 and read SSHE. I'm currently about 40BB down over about 5500 hands. Small sample size, nothing to be too concerned about; sounds similar to your situation.

I can't say I find the play of my opponents to be impenetrable or confusing. They seem to divide neatly into loose-passive fish, rocks, TA-A 2+2 types, and the happy maniacs. So I'm not sure what you mean when you suggest you're facing complex strategic issues. I don't mean to be rude, but I wonder whether this is happening because your own play has become a bit fancy and you're out-thinking yourself in simple situations where the correct play is rather obvious.

For myself, it could well be that my poor results to date are just a downswing. That's possible, but I suspect there's been an aggression-related leak as well. You may be suffering from the same problem? I believe I've done the usual thing and over-interpreted Mr. Miller as recommeding semi-maniac levels of aggression. I think this has most obviously been a mistake in medium-sized not-multiway-enough pots where the odds don't justify it. I have also not given enough credit to (for example) turn raises by typical passive players. I think I've been doing quick calculations about what to do in that situation based on optimistic assumptions like "50% he's got a monster, 25% he's got 2 pair and I have odds to call, 25% he's raising some crazy draw and I'm ahead." Experience has shown that the real numbers are maybe more like 75/20/5, or worse.

So, I'm calming down a bit on the turn. Not necessarily folding, of course, but not feeling ashamed of switching to a call-down mode in the face of a raise, for example.

I'll get back to you after 25,000 more hands in this slightly toned-down style and let you know what's happening.

Cheers,
--JTR.

[stir]

IMO, I think you should go back and re-read SSH, particularly all post flop sections and quizes. I am on my 3rd reading and am still picking up concepts that I either missed or didn't truly understand based on the first read.

Your reading comprehension may be far better than mine, however, I think there is a strong possibilty you will find concepts/areas/specific plays you thought you understood but don't really.

And I would drop back to $1/2 while going performing this study.

[PaultheS]

I played around 10k hands of $1/$2. Not sure how many $0.5/$1 hands I played, as I didn't have PokerTracker until halfway through my $1/$2 play.

That's a good point about it being my first downswing, as indeed it is. More accurately, it's an extended period of breakeven poker. I have the standard 2+2 mindset that downswings are natural, winning money is good, small samples are insignificant, etc., but it's of course different when it happens to you and when your play and confidence are affected. I probably will take a break for some sunshine, lollypops, and midterms, and then see if I can relax when I come back.

[PaultheS]

[ QUOTE ]
So I'm not sure what you mean when you suggest you're facing complex strategic issues. I don't mean to be rude, but I wonder whether this is happening because your own play has become a bit fancy and you're out-thinking yourself in simple situations where the correct play is rather obvious.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I suggested I was facing complex strategic issues (I did mention it was Party $2/$4 [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]), but yes, I think the second thing you said is exactly my problem (information overload). A lot of the SSHE stuff I read was looser than I'm used to, so instead of playing as I've trained myself to I usually end up thinking "Well... it says in SSHE I can limp here..." and then I second guess myself the whole hand.

To everyone, I guess slowing down and getting comfortable with the new style would be beneficial, but do you think I should stick with $2/$4 while I do this or go back to $1/$2?

[btspider]

stick with 2/4. it will go away. just double-check a few extra hands which seem straightforward so you can keep tabs on your fundamentals. if you see yourself playing weaker PF or postflop, you've got to stop for the day.

also, if you multi-table, drop a table or two until you have some winnings at 2/4. I play with more confidence when I know I'm playing with other people's money at a new limit.

[J.R.]

Make a concious effort to post at least one hand from each hour of 2-4 play and to make at least 50 strategy posts each week. Focus on the second part while taking time off from playing. Basically respond too as many hands as possible, especially party 2-4 hands (spam the board). You may have leaks that you don't realize, and if not, its great for the confidence when you find your advice/thoughts are in accord with more experienced posters and winning 2-4 players.

[cov47]

Also, do you have Pokertracker? I'm not sure how many hands at either 1/2 or 2/4 you've played. If you've been playing your limit of choice for a decent amount of time, start looking at your stats. Are your VPIP or PFR ridiculous? Are you too passive? Are there certain hands you're spewing chips with? Are you playing badly out of certain positions?

The first time I went through what I thought was just a downswing at 2/4, PT helped me to see that this downswing was more like a correction - as I had been playing with bad habits that finally started to hurt me. Oh yeah, and if you don't have Pokertracker, that's one huge leak in your game.