Preflop Two Part Question

[David Sklansky]

You are playing No Limit Holdem against pretty tough opponents. You are under the gun with only three or four times the big blind. Nine handed. Everybody else has a lot more than you do. Whether it was a tournament or a cash game you would obviously fold or move in. Assuming that the other players will call you with the exact same hands whether it is a cash game or a tournament, in which situation would you be more likely to move in? Or is it equal? Also assume that you have a bunch more money in your pocket for the cash game and that you are in the early stages of the tournament.

Also how would you answer this question if you had no access to more money in the cash game.

[TheJackal]

I'd more willing to go broke in the cash game if I can pull out more money. If I can be patient in the tournament, I'd be more willing to wait at least a round for a hand if I will have 2.5 BB's after the blinds. Had it been equal (no money in the cash game), it wouldn't make a difference.

[ArchAngel71857]

I'd be more likely to move in the cash game. If I bust, I have bankroll to cover me. Being shortstacked in a tournament, I can afford to be a patient for the next 20 or so hands and hopefully pick up a good one. It's early, so the blinds are small enough compared to most stackes (hopefully) that I can maybe steal some in late position. If I had no more access to money in the cash game, I think it would be equal, although depending on how long I had been playing, I may try and find another game.

-AA

[Murilo]

I'd play it the same whether its a tourney or a cash game, regardless of whether I had more $ available. Move in if its +EV, fold if not. The question says the opponents are tough. You need to be better than them to be able to pass on a +EV play early in a tourney. I'm not an expert, so I won't. Even if you're a poker god and are slightly better than these merely "pretty tough" opponents, you can't really outplay them with such a small stack. You have to move in or fold preflop.

[boedeker]

easy! no more money in the bankroll, look at the cards if they are good go for it, if they arn't i muck my hands in disgust and go cry away my sorrows on a losing session with one big blind of beer and come back tomorrow.

the other two situations are well beyond my skill set.

[Faro]

In a tournament it sounds like there I would have enough chips to sustain a raise for one jog around the table. Since oponents will call with the same hands I would look to tighten to play about 10 percent of the hands to limit possible calls with the assumption I will get one of these 10 percent hands in one round before I pay for the blinds twice. I would look to play

TT,JJ,QQ,AA,any AK...AQ...KQ...AJ...AT and max sutied connectors and maybe 99 and 88.

In a cash game I would limit under the gun play to type 1 to 3 or a 19:1 shot with premium hands if I can dig out more money.

If I had no more money in a cash game I would leave after I saw my hand and it did not qualify for a raise so I would not have to post the blinds.

[West]

Remember, you only have 3 or 4 times the BB and you're UTG. If say the blinds are 25/50, and you had 200, that means after three hands you have 125 chips left if you fold. You're gonna have a little trouble stealing the blinds. In 20 hands you'll be posting the last of your chips as the big blind if you haven't played by then.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
You are playing No Limit Holdem against pretty tough opponents. You are under the gun with only three or four times the big blind. Nine handed. Everybody else has a lot more than you do. Whether it was a tournament or a cash game you would obviously fold or move in. Assuming that the other players will call you with the exact same hands whether it is a cash game or a tournament, in which situation would you be more likely to move in? Or is it equal? Also assume that you have a bunch more money in your pocket for the cash game and that you are in the early stages of the tournament.

Also how would you answer this question if you had no access to more money in the cash game.

[/ QUOTE ]

early stages + small stack => chipEV ~= $EV. No preference.

eastbay

[binions]

If I had "a bunch more money" in a cash NL game, why the hell would I be sitting with a stack worth 3 or 4xBB??? In a cash game, I ALWAYS want to have the most chips at the table if at all possible.

The point of your question gets at the value of your bottom chips, cash v. tourney. Your bottom tourney chips are always more valuable than their cash counterparts. Accordingly, you should be more reluctant to go all-in in a tourney.

In fact, I have seen patient short-stacked players build huge stacks in tourneys by being very selective, and getting some breaks.

[West]

The tournament, because the blinds going through you is going to take away vital chips you can't replace with money out of your pocket, which will erode your ability to compete. If you had three times the BB, the blinds going through you now would put you in the position of having to double up just to have the same amount of chips as you had UTG. You should be willing to take chances with all kinds of hands you wouldn't play in the cash game.

In the cash game, you should either buy in for more or get up.