Is this a bad bet?

garyc8 · #1 10-11-2004, 07:56 AM

Playing 10/20 live. 11 handed. Loose game.

4 limpers ahead of me. I hold K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in LP.
I raise. Folds to BB. BB and all 4 limpers call.

Flop (6 players) 6BB: Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Checked to me. I bet. Everyone calls.

Turn (6 players) 8.9BB: Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Checked to me. I bet. EP2calls. MP3 calls. Others fold.

River (3players) 11.9BB: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
MP3 pounds fist on table angrily. EP2 checks. MP3 checks.
I bet. EP2 thinks about it, then calls. MP3 folds.

EP2 shows 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Drags pot w/ 2 pair, Qs & 6s.

My reasoning: I had originally bet hoping for a free card,
but when the top card paired on the turn I thought I had a good chance to steal. I was fairly confident noone had a Q.
After shaking most of the field there, I figured I should keep going on the river (especially since I was very sure that MP3 was prepared to fold).

Was my reasoning flawed? How would others have played this hand?

elysium · #2 10-11-2004, 12:32 PM

hi cleve

the raise pre-flop is a bad idea. you aren't accomplishing anything by it.

the turn bet is awful. graciously accept the free card you bought by betting the flop.

onegymrat · #3 10-11-2004, 12:39 PM

Hi Kevin,

I would have checked the turn. You have five opponents which is three more than I want if I were to bet the turn. You are playing 11-handed. Take the free card as intended.

tolbiny · #4 10-11-2004, 04:38 PM

Kevin,
In these games your flop bet is a value bet, you will get more than enough callers to make it so.
What you will not do is fold enough people on the turn to make it a good bluff. What you are getting to fold are smal pp who took one off and bd flushes usually. These guys don't worry you, check and take your free card.

Once you have bet on the turn i would be hesitant to bet on the river, players who check call, check call, don't check fold often enough.
The guy who banged his hand had either a flush draw, or a monster. the tell is about 75% that he has a flush draw in thses games, and 25% of the time he has 88 or 66 or 22 and likes to over act. It might be more to the flush draw, but in these games i often see the rivered boat/ turned boat act this.

BTW i can't wait to make it to the games so i can scour the tables trying to figure out who you are. Gonna take some detective work... wonder if we have played together before. I haven't been in 6 weeks so excuse my playing the first time you catch me there.
Victor just plays badly all the time.

devinthedude · #5 10-11-2004, 06:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
you aren't accomplishing anything by it.

[/ QUOTE ]

How about "building a large pot when you probably have the best hand in good position"?

elindauer · #6 10-11-2004, 07:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
the raise pre-flop is a bad idea. you aren't accomplishing anything by it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yikes. What? I feel the opposite. Clear raise with a great multiway hand.

[ QUOTE ]
the turn bet is awful. graciously accept the free card you bought by betting the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably right. Your overcard makes it not a terrible mistake though, as you could almost bet for value. Take the free card though.

Having bet the turn, bet the river. You won't succeed often, but you'll succeed often enough, I believe. Table slapper probably legitimately missed, you just have to bluff one guy to take it down.

Good luck.
Eric

ActionBob · #7 10-11-2004, 07:32 PM

"the raise pre-flop is a bad idea. you aren't accomplishing anything by it. "

The raise preflop is a no-brainer. I couldn't imagine not raising in this spot.

-ActionBob

elysium · #8 10-12-2004, 02:22 AM

hi dev

well....i'm just not so sure that he's strong enough to value raise here; but i could be wrong. it's just that i am not sure enough to warrant raising. also, i really can't tell whether i want everyone to call when i raise, or whether i want a few folds. i'm not disputing the possibility, though, that raising has merits. that's what this forum is all about. even i can be wrong.

that's a joke dev. oh, forget it.

garyc8 · #9 10-12-2004, 08:45 AM

I agree with those of you who defended my pre-flop raise. I think the players ahead of me would have raised with a better hand. Also, I may have encouraged the button to fold, improving my already good position.
I guess I should have taken a free card on the turn. I didn't make the caller (on the river) for a real calling-station. Maybe he just got a good read off of me that I did not have a Q.
A player sitting next to me suggested that if I had not raised pre-flop I would have had a better chance to steal. But of course, stealing was not my original plan. It was a botched crime of opportunity.

Thanks for the feedback.

Tolbiny, if you've been playing around Cleveland for long there's a good chance we've run into each other before.
I wonder who you are.

PapaDeuce · #10 10-12-2004, 11:37 AM

i know that everyone's already put in $.02 but i thought i'd add one more thing. i think your raise preflop is good and your turn bet is so-so. the river bet is one of those spots where you're only going to be called by a better hand. had i bet the turn and gotten called i would not bet the river, but i do understand why you did.