A reasonably good self-test for Pathological Gambling

BigBaitsim (milo) · #1 10-09-2004, 01:14 PM

National Council on Problem Gambling - Self Test

This is a self-test that I think, in general, is a pretty good one. Most tests for "Pathological Gambling," a mental health diagnosis under the current nomenclature, are a bit over-inclusive and would likely put many +EV poker players in the category "pathological."

I think a reasonable adjustment for the +EV poker player would be to look critically at question 1 which refers to spending a lot of time thinking about and planning gambling experiences (which is likely a yes for most 2+2ers), question #2, which discusses increasing stakes (which is the goal of many 2+2ers) and #6, which refers to "returning another day to get even." Of course a +EV gambler does not return the next day to "get even" per se, but I'm not sure this one really applies to daily or near-daily +EV poker players.

If you take this test, do so honestly and without any "+EV Gambler Adjustment." I scored a 3 (yes to 1, 2 & 6), which these folks said was not to the level of "Pathological Gambling," but might indicate past or present problem gambling. I am not terribly concerned about a 3 in my case, but a 4 or 5 would raise red flags if items that are not part of a regular +EV gambler's life are included. More importantly, I would be concerned if a person answered YES to even one question from the following (in white <font color="white"> 4, 5, 8, 9 or 10 </font>).

Enjoy,

Dr. Milo (a real-life clinical psychologist)

Kurn, son of Mogh · #2 10-09-2004, 03:58 PM

I got a 2.

reubenf · #3 10-09-2004, 04:11 PM

I scored a 3, answering yes to: 1, 2, 7. Thanks for the link!

BusterStacks · #4 10-09-2004, 05:01 PM

6

EjnarPik · #5 10-09-2004, 07:06 PM

Got a 7, ouch.

I'm not concerned though, but that probably indicates that I am also in denial. I'm [censored].

Ejnar Pik, Southern-Docks.

AtlBrvs4Life · #6 10-09-2004, 07:28 PM

I received a 3. I don't have a gambling problem I swear! Or a denial problem! Time to go use my poker winnings on InterPoker at their online casino.

submariner · #7 10-09-2004, 08:18 PM

To me, the first question is, do I consider playing poker (over the long term) gambling?

As for question 2, I thought the important idea in it was increasing stakes to get the same excitement . I don't play poker for excitement to begin with (I enjoy reading about it, studying it, but actually playing is pretty boring). Moving up in stakes as a natural progression in a poker "career" is not relevent to this question, in my opinion.

jdl22 · #8 10-10-2004, 01:45 AM

Let's look at how each question applies to +EV players that play as a second job or professionally.

[ QUOTE ]

1. Have there ever been periods lasting 2 weeks or longer when you spent a lot of time thinking about your gambling experiences, planning out future gambling ventures or bets, or thinking about ways of getting money to gamble with?

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously this is yes for all posters here including serious +EV players.

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2. Have there ever been periods when you needed to gamble with increasing amounts of money or with larger bets than before in order to get the same feeling of excitement?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is probably yes for the part timers and the pros. After you've played long enough then you neither get thrilled by the big pots nor too upset after bad beats. When you move up the additional amount does cause you to get more emotionally attached to the game. After time this "scared money" effect goes away.

[ QUOTE ]
3. Have you ever felt restless or irritable when trying to stop, cut down, or control your gambling?

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For those making side income or primary income from poker it would be natural to feel restless when stopping. However, this question is more valid than the previous ones. If somebody repeatedly tries to take a break but can't that could be a sign of a problem in any case.

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4. Have you tried and not succeeded in stopping, cutting down, or controlling your gambling three or more times in your life?

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Seems valid, see 3 above.

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5. Have you ever gambled to escape from personal problems, or to relieve uncomfortable feelings such as guilt, anxiety, helplessness, or depression?

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Again it seems valid. Playing while not being able to focus is a bad EV move as well.

[ QUOTE ]
6. Has there ever been a period when, if you lost money gambling one day, you would often return another day to get even?

[/ QUOTE ]

Chasing losses is a bad thing to do. If you were playing solely to gain the money back and not just because that was your normal time to play that could be a sign of trouble.

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7. Have you lied to family members, friends, or others about how much you gamble, and/or about how much money you lost on gambling, on at least three occasions?

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I think most do this. If you play seriously you are going to have downswings. People that don't know anything about poker often freak out when they hear the sums of money that are lost during these. It is probably better for all parties involved if distributing this type of info was kept to a minimum among people that don't understand the swingy nature of the game. A better question would be have you ever lied to yourself about your losses? This one is harder to answer honestly obviously. Also because gambling is often thought of as a vice it is often a +EV move to not tell certain people that you do it, or at least not tell them the truth about how much time is invested.

[ QUOTE ]
8. Have you ever written a bad check or taken money that didn't belong to you from family members, friends, or anyone else in order to pay for your gambling?

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This clearly indicates a problem.

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9. Has your gambling ever caused serious or repeated problems in your relationships with any of your family members or friends? Or, has your gambling ever caused you problems at work or at school?

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Again, often with people not in the know the swings involved can cause a lot of stress. Depending on the severity of it, it could indicate a problem I suppose.

[ QUOTE ]
10. Have you ever needed to ask family members, friends, a lending institution, or anyone else to loan you money or otherwise bail you out of a desperate money situation that was largely caused by your gambling?

[/ QUOTE ]

Staking deals etc.

chesspain · #9 10-10-2004, 01:51 AM

I scored a 3 as well.

Sincerely,

Dr. chesspain (another real life psychologist)

BigBaitsim (milo) · #10 10-10-2004, 02:22 AM

On reconsideration:

#6 has to be a "No" for me. I don't "chase." I do return to the table hoping to win, but at my usual time and day. If anything, after a crushing loss I'll take off a few days to settle down my nerves.

#7 is a "Yes," sort of... I was finding that many of my more reputable friends drew the conclusion that playing poker on the internet meant I was a degenerate who would lose the house. I cashed out in July and told everyone about it. Since putting some of the money back, I've several times fibbed to friends who would not understand. I NEVER lie to the wife about my play or to my most trusted friends.

So I guess I still get a 3.